Author Topic: Commority?  (Read 704 times)

Offline Mike Gunnill

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Re: Commority?
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2020, 08:20:29 PM »
Little Commodite (sic) shows as a house name in the 1851 Census in, you've guessed it, Trotterscliffe. Commority (little or no) doesn't so show. Neither show as a house name in the 1841 Census.


'Little Commodity' is the name used in the following Grade II listing, though the associated map also shows a dwelling/structure named 'Commority': https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1236223




Thx Cat:




The 1907 map is interesting that appears to shows a corrugated structure next the house and then a barn attached to that.  Previous owners have mentioned the corrugated part and the barn, where I believe there was a pottery.


The name again is questioned. On a postcard taken by a stationers of Snodland, the property is pictured and named Little Commority.  The present owners are very positive in their mind, that the name from 1980 became Commority. They have deeds to prove this.


Thx again


Mike




Thanks Nemo and again CAT.


I had seen the Historic England entry and its interesting description. The man I am writing about used to live there then went off and building several cottages using ( I think ), Little Commority as his inspiration. The present owners don't know that much, except it has its own Well and there used to be a barn attached directly to the house. I may now stop while I am ahead as I need to sleep at night.




Thank you. Stay Safe
Mike Gunnill

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Offline CAT

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Re: Commority?
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2020, 09:01:48 AM »
These might help with understanding the immediate historical layout Mike Gunnill?


The first is an extract from the 1871 O.S. map showing Little Commodity standing on its own adjacent to the cross roads of the Pilgrims Way. It is interesting to note there are two O.S Bench mark positions shown (B.M. 435.4 on the south-eastern corner of the house) with another (B.M. 435.4) in the middle of the cross roads. By 1897 the house shown on the earlier map has been enlarged with the addition of a rear extension giving the footprint of the property an almost square plan as opposed to the L-shape shown previously. This later map has a few other amendments with the loss of the second benchmark in the cross road, but the site of the well is shown as a circle next to the path heading eastwards to the road. By 1907 the construction of a series of secondary buildings to the west of Little Commodity may be the 'barns' known to have been on the site, whilst others could represent a stable, cart lodge, or even a stock house for animals? The biggest change being the construction of another property not too far away to the northeast. Today this is known as Harpwood, and judging by its location in a small terrace cut into the sloping hillside may have been a quarryman's cottage? The 1929 map shows very little difference from the 1907 map.

Offline Mike Gunnill

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Re: Commority?
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2020, 05:13:55 PM »
Little Commodite (sic) shows as a house name in the 1851 Census in, you've guessed it, Trotterscliffe. Commority (little or no) doesn't so show. Neither show as a house name in the 1841 Census.


'Little Commodity' is the name used in the following Grade II listing, though the associated map also shows a dwelling/structure named 'Commority': https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1236223




Thanks Nemo and again CAT.


I had seen the Historic England entry and its interesting description. The man I am writing about used to live there then went off and building several cottages using ( I think ), Little Commority as his inspiration. The present owners don't know that much, except it has its own Well and there used to be a barn attached directly to the house. I may now stop while I am ahead as I need to sleep at night.




Thank you. Stay Safe
Mike Gunnill

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Offline Nemo

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Re: Commority?
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2020, 03:44:10 PM »
Little Commodite (sic) shows as a house name in the 1851 Census in, you've guessed it, Trotterscliffe. Commority (little or no) doesn't so show. Neither show as a house name in the 1841 Census.


'Little Commodity' is the name used in the following Grade II listing, though the associated map also shows a dwelling/structure named 'Commority': https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1236223 . The KCC predecessor of the Listing dates from 1956 according to the National Archives.

Offline CAT

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Re: Commority?
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2020, 08:41:20 AM »
Looking at the tithe award schedule for Trottiscliffe there are two entries with the use of Commodity in their description. The first, Commodity Croft being numbered 171, a plot of arable land measuring just under 2 1/2 acres (2.3.1), in the ownership and occupation of William Smith. The second being Little Commodity Field 203, an arable & pasture plot measuring just over 2 acres (2.1.14) under the ownership of Charles Gustavus Whitaker and under the occupation of John Luxford.

Offline Nemo

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Re: Commority?
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2020, 10:47:44 PM »
Given proximity of r and d on a Qwerty typewriter/keyboard, I'd be more inclined to think that Commority was intentional if it could be found to have existed prior to 1873.


The following is a quote from the Maidstone Journal and Kentish Advertiser of 7 May 1896: "Mr Terry drew attention to the state of a part of the Pilgrims road between Pines Field and Little Commodity".

So, a sort of Boadicea thing, probably caused by the primitive predictive texting that was all the Victorians had access to?

Offline Mike Gunnill

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Re: Commority?
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2020, 03:44:17 PM »
Commority Road is recent and apparently related to the Waterlow Estate, taking the name from existing Little Commority and Commority Down, which it led to. The people to answer this problem are the English Placename Society, and the person responsible for Kent is Dr Paul Cavill at Notingham University.




Thank you CAT and Sidw


Grateful for your help on this. Very useful detail from both of you, so thank you very much.




I knew about the Waterlow Estate connection but agree this pre-dates that. I have emailed Dr Paul Cavill to see if he can help.  Small steps forward at last, thanks chaps!


Mike
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Offline CAT

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Re: Commority?
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2020, 12:29:38 PM »
However, examination of the available historic maps shows that prior to the present Commority Road associated with the Waterlow Estate, there was an existing trackway that lead from beyond Swanswood Farm to the north to Little Commodity after descending the scarp slope of the North Downs where it met with the roughly east - west aligned Pilgrims Way before passing the Coldrum Long Barrow to the south. This route is probably much older than you may think?

Offline Sidw

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Re: Commority?
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2020, 11:13:59 AM »
Commority Road is recent and apparently related to the Waterlow Estate, taking the name from existing Little Commority and Commority Down, which it led to. The people to answer this problem are the English Placename Society, and the person responsible for Kent is Dr Paul Cavill at Notingham University.

Offline CAT

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Re: Commority?
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2020, 04:07:18 PM »
The 1st (1871), 2nd (1897), 3rd (1907) and 4th (1929) Edition maps of the Ordnance Survey all refer to the place as Little Commodity. Could the present name just be a spelling error?

Offline Archi93

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Re: Commority?
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2020, 07:09:47 PM »
In the same area, the Trittiscliffe Tree Warden mentions Commority Down
https://trottiscliffepc.co.uk/trottiscliffe-tree-warden-blog-post-2/
Interesting site about trees at Trottiscliffe. The blog also shows a photo of the Coldrum Stones or barrow. We went there when we were studying Neolithic burial mounds in my archaeology course, which I did part time at Christ Church, Canterbury. (1993) We had lectures on Kentish Archaeology on Saturday mornings, then about once  a month on a Sunday we visited various sites to get a feel of what our lecturer had been talking about.


Offline Mike Gunnill

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Re: Commority?
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2020, 10:18:41 AM »
A Scottish connection - Sir Sydney Hedley Waterlow, 1st Bt., who built Trosley Towers, held the office of Member of Parliament (M.P.) for Dumfries-shire between 1868 and 1869

Source - http://www.thepeerage.com/p40898.htm

He was a prominent philanthropist, particularly in connection with property and funds for property for those less fortunate the him.




I have established that the cottage was called Little Commority before the Waterlow Estate.




Thx
Mike Gunnill

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Offline Longpockets

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Re: Commority?
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2020, 06:00:04 PM »
A Scottish connection - Sir Sydney Hedley Waterlow, 1st Bt., who built Trosley Towers, held the office of Member of Parliament (M.P.) for Dumfries-shire between 1868 and 1869

Source - http://www.thepeerage.com/p40898.htm

He was a prominent philanthropist, particularly in connection with property and funds for property for those less fortunate the him.

Offline MartinR

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Re: Commority?
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2020, 02:23:35 PM »
Good call Alec.  OED gives commonty as "The body of the common people, commonalty, commons. Obsolete"  or "A community; a commonwealth. Obsolete". There are other meanings including land held in common and common pasture but they are all Scottish legal terms, unlikely (but not impossible) to have been used in Kent.  there's also "commonity" for "The common people, the commonalty", but it is marked as "Scottish. Obsolete. rare."

Offline Invicta Alec

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Re: Commority?
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2020, 01:27:37 PM »
Squeeze the two letters "r" and "i" together making an "n" and you get ................


Commonty

a right of ownership in land held in common by two or more persons and under certain servitudes also the land itself
Just a thought  :) 


Alec.