The Kent History Forum
Members Only Area => General Discussion => Topic started by: Invicta Alec on January 10, 2021, 04:12:38 PM
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Just for a bit of fun (and maybe to judge member participation) how about telling us about the nearest piece of Kent history to where you live (or once lived) in the county?
According to Google maps I live precisely 0.9 miles from what was the nearest RAF airfield to occupied Europe during the second world war. Sages amongst you will know therefore that I live in Hawkinge.
Many years ago I lived in Beltinge which of course also has WWII connections with the testing of the bouncing bomb along the north Kent coastline at Reculver. The history of this little corner of the county goes way back before 20th century conflicts though. At just under three miles from my former home are the twin towers at Reculver. These structures are 12th century and in themselves occupy part of the same site as the Roman settlement which existed in the first and second centuries A.D.
What do you have near to you?
Alec.
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About a mile up the lane from our house stands Ellens Court. A strange oast house conversion with a distinct entrance. This was the home of Dr Josiah Oldfield a "Fruitarian" and he ran it as a hospital early in the twentieth century. There are various instances of his initials and dates inset onto walls.
He had been great friends with Gandhi and rumour has it that he once visited - on foot, of course.
The Manor House over the road had a chapel built onto it, now partially ruined, and the house is under complete renovation.
Ellens Court was used to give East End children a country holiday in the 1940s, and then became a Youth Hostel for many years. It is now a care home for adults with learning difficulties.
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I knew nothing of these so thank you John. A quick google check tells me this is Doddington (Sittingbourne) right?
Alec.
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Ellens Court stands at a tee junction on Lady Margaret Manor Road - try getting that plus a house name, into some address boxes!
The historic name there is Greet, in many forms and spellings.
Doddington is the area, although Wychling church is closer to many.
All on the North Downs area of outstanding natural beauty (aonb).
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The nearest bit of history to our house is the street outside which was a Roman trackway (the upper part of City Way, Rochester). Hard by we have Fort Horsted and Rochester Airport which was a fighter base in WWII as well as Shorts land based facility.
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The nearest history to me, would be the supposed shrine to William of Perth.
It would have been where the old St Williams Hospital was and a friend of mine believes he lives where the shrine actually was ? Now of course the Wisdom Hospice is in place there.
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The nearest history to me, would be the supposed shrine to William of Perth.
It would have been where the old St Williams Hospital was ............
I found a short but pretty decent account of him on Wikipedia. I'll put my hands up and confess its another piece of Kent history I was unaware of. Thank you Lyn.
Alec.
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Alec, on the old KHF site there was quite a bit about St William, but of course lost to us all now sadly. May have been part of the Hospital thread can't remember now. It is only across the road from me .
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Goodness me, where do I start?
I live in lower Gillingham. I suppose the nearest kind of historical site to me is the Lower Road, the route once taken by Queen Elizabeth's admirals Hawkins, Drake and Frobisher to travel between the Queen's Court in London and their ships at Queenborough. A little further north is what was the Victorian extension to Chatham Dockyard. To my North-west, about 400 yards is the Lower Lines Park - once home to the official residence and headquarters bunker for the Commander in Chief, Nore Command. About a mile east of me is Old Gillingham and St. Mary Magdalene's Church, baptism place of Will Adams, the first non-Japanese Samurai and founder of the Japanese Navy. I live very near to the River Medway with all it's history. I have something in common with Nelson, Drake and countless others in that I learned to sail on the Medway. About a mile to the west of me is Brompton Barracks, still home (for how long?) of the Corps of Royal Engineers and half a mile beyond that is the Chatham Royal Dockyard, now known as Chatham Historic Dockyard.
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the supposed shrine to William of Perth. ... It would have been where the old St Williams Hospital was and a friend of mine believes he lives where the shrine actually was ? Now of course the Wisdom Hospice is in place there
There was a chapel at the site of the murder, but the shrine was in the north quire transept of Rochester Cathedral. It is reputed that his tomb is extant; the large sarcophagus against the north wall of the north quire transept. The shrine is where the Warner Chapel is now. The shrine brought much needed income to the cathedral which otherwise has always suffered from being a small see trapped between Canterbury and London. Indeed, so great was the income that the 13C rebuilding of the east end of the cathedral was paid for by it. The "Pilgrim Steps" lead up to the site of the shrine and have been worn away in the middle, reputedly by the knees of pilgrims.
I wasn't aware of the WP account of St William, I've had a glance and I'm afraid there are a few inaccuracies, particularly the attribution of the arms of the Bishop. The wall paintings in Frindsbury Church have faded over the years and had practically disappeared by 1990. A small copy of them hangs on the south wall of the chancel. It is thought that pilgrim in the right hand window jamb is the only known image of St. William.
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My garden!
This was part of the ancient woodland Little Delce Woods at the Rochester Airport end of the Rochester Maidstone Road and Tideway junction which I understand was mentioned in the Domesday Book. The picture was taken in the 60s and I notice now, like most gardens, its surrounded by a 6ft fence. And the three mature trees (one seen here) have been removed. There is a small sign noting the woodland at the junction.
Given the location we were obviously surrounded a lot of history by the airport, Fort Bridgewood, etc
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Stuartwaters I note in your very interesting blog ,mention of the RE Baracks ,plus your comment. "For how long"?Stuart is there any reason for that,not returned to my beloved Medway Towns for many years now(since the yard closed) my interest is as an ex Sapper I spent many happy hours/years in and around the Baracks,Lodge hill camp, upnor hard ,l know both Lodge hill/upnor hard have now gone
Are the Gillingham Baracks on the way out as well?
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Alec's history challenge,I grew up in Union st Rochester during ww2,I suppose I was surrounded by history,the Cathedral ,restoration house,fort Horsted,the Vineyard,last but not least Rochester castle,my first school (st Margrets)was once a work house,the very house I lived in ,Mosly house ,had servant call bells fitted plus magnificent marble fire places ,plus a large wine cellar ,(very dilapidated )took part in the very first post war Rochester festival in the castle gardens ,no idea of the year,
Years later I even got to work at the Watts arms House for a short time,
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@Colin. Just in case anyone is not aware "Union St" in most towns refers to the Poor Law Unions, which ran the workhouses. You mention Upnor Hard. Is that the Military establishment (RE? RM?) on the north bank nearly opposite what is now Chatham Marina? If so it is still functioning, along with their high speed boats which seem to be immune to the 6 kt speed limit!
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Borstal 1950s. We moved from Somerset to Brambletree Cresc when they were new builds-about 1955, dad was posted to the middle east & mum wanted to return to Kent. Memories of playing on the landing craft on the shore about where Borstal Marina is now, of playing in the cement works, what we called the brickworks which were where the M2 bridge crosses over, St Matthews primary school, initially in the huts up the track to the Borstal, then later in the Victorian building, upper & lower playgrounds-I'm sure were boys only, girls only with an airraid shelter. Being a church school Ascension day meant a church service but you got the rest of the day off. The police call box on the corner of one of the hillside roads that went up the hill, open the door and the blue light on top started flashing. The butchers near the Baptist Church, always a long haired Dachshund sitting under the block. Playing in the various quarries, including rolling down the side in a 50gal drum. And wondering what the painted marks were on the Wouldham Rd-everyone said it was a new road going through how daft was that with the Medway a couple of hundred yards away, later the M2 was built over it. Being there was so few cars taking numbers was almost mandatory for all boys, and Warwick Rd was fantastic for your soap box, down the hill amd across the junction down Brambletree Cresc. fine if you didn't come off and leave your knees on the concrete road
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From near to where I lived at Snodland, The Battle of Medway, although disputed, during the Roman Invasion of 43 AD. Rather than regurgitate details form other sources this web site covers it very well.
https://www.britishbattles.com/wars-of-roman-britain/battle-of-medway/
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[/size]Much history in the area also which is covered well by https://www.snodlandhistory.org.uk/ [size=78%]
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Like Colin Walsh I spent my first years (1950s) living in Troy Town, so surrounded by the same history of Rochester. To add to his list I include the old Guardhouse that was alongside the Watts Almhouse where I played as a child
Moved to Cornwall 40 years ago where the nearest piece of history was just outside my front door, a monument dating from 3500-2500 BC; and now regularly take my granddaughter to play amongst stone circles from the Neolithic period.
I think we had more fun playing in the forts, castles and tunnels of our youth though.
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I can see Bartons Point Country Park from my verandah, a mile away. I regularly walk and cycle to, through, and around it.
In the context of this thread, there are the remains of the old rifle range covering several acres of the park.
The most prominent feature is the covered concrete walkway that protected passers by from getting accidentally shot as they travelled between Minster and Sheerness. I noticed last year that this walkway has now been fenced off to prevent access. It must be getting dangerous as it decays.
The firing sites, space 100yds apart. are still clearly viible as ridge on the landscape. There is at least one distance marker post still in place for 1 of the firing sites.
There is the Military Canal that starts in the park, and runs for a couple of miles through the park and beyond. Much of the canal and the defensive firing line dyke (made from the canal spoil) along its length still exsists. There is a large brick magazine built into the dyke, sealed off and inaccessable internally. I believe there were several magazines originally.
Along the dyke are the remains of WW2 searchlight and ant aircraft sites, visible and accessable.
At the north end of the canal is a holiday park on a WW1 naval artillery site that protected the Thames from naval invasion.
This is private land, but some of the gun emplacements and underground magazines still exsist.
Then. less than a mile in the opposite direction, is Minster Abbey.
I hope this post meets the spirit of Alec's history challenge.
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I hope this post meets the spirit of Alec's history challenge.
Very much so Local Hiker! Thank you for your interesting account of your very local history.
Because members are writing about the nearest historical points of interest to where they live we are being treated to maybe some lesser known facts of Kent's history. I've certainly learned some stuff that is new to me.
I'm hoping there is more to come! :D
Alec.
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Being born on the Wayfield Estate in Chatham, you might think that there was no history to be found. Not true! Once I started school for family reasons I walked every day to Glencoe school. Past Fort Luton, known to me then as an overgrown site where snakes would bite you and the moat was very deep would kill you if you venture din side the fence. Much has been put on History forums since then and of course the old KHF worked and we met there more than once.
Moving later to Luton there is plenty of history there as well. Many old houses have since gone but I recall seeing on maps of Romans findings in the area where the old Roman Catholic church was, but at the moment I cant find a map to show it. I have already written about the history of Christ Church Luton, three churches have been in that area now along at one time and old school.
Must not forget the Windmill either just of Street End road. Nor the encampment on Ash Tree lane and the Hopping in Capstone, and the waterworks.
Plenty of things really just hidden from site.
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Fort Luton was indeed a very sinister place Lutonman, particularly so for us youngsters living at Wayfields!
Not that I ever saw one, but rumours of hundreds of snakes living in the deep moat abounded. I always walked very quickly past the narrow bit between the fences of the fort and the school.
There were many superb photos of the Ash Tree Lane encampment on the old site. Walking past it forms part of my very earliest memories. Do we know when it was finally abandoned? Does anyone have any photos now?
Alec.
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Encampment pictures
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Martin R,thanks for the information ref upnor hard,it was, in my time a Royal Engineer training area ,don't recall any leather necks using it.
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Hi Shoot 999,yes I forgot the Maidstone road guard house,did you ever venture into the moat,the place with the coverd rifle range?we eventually found our way to Shorts underground factory down the ventilation /escape shafts in the moat,allso in the grounds of the guard house was a block of cells ,I recall on the defunct fourum we had a chap who actually lived in the building affixed to the cells.thanks for reminding me,
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Colin, I'm sure you are right, I was thinking RE, but then the boats they use looked more RM which was why I left it as "(RE? RM?)". Google satellite gives a good view:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4030921,0.5256379,114m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1 (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4030921,0.5256379,114m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1I've)
I've been locking into Chatham when they decided to come in mob-handed to refuel. Into the lock at around 10 kt (or more), then stopped on a sixpence. Nice bit of kit, but I wouldn't want the fuel bill!
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Martin it may well be a multi service training area .its many moons since I was in The Medway towns,but it's nice to know some of the old areas remain,had a few "sods operas"on the hard at upnor one things not changed then ,Thay still drive the boats hard,in my day of course the "marina" was all part of the dockyard ,any way mate thanks for the information
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Pete,ref the landing craft in your blog,I to played in and on them,interesting point is Thay were not real ,Thay were dummies created to fool the Germans of a phantom army based in the south east prior to D day,mainly ply wood and canvas moored in the Medway ,around Borstal reach,somewhere on you tube is a video of them taken from the air.
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Hi Colin thanks for that, certainly all plywood as the one we mucked about on was partially burnt. Never been able to identify the type but if it was a dummy might have been reduced scale.
Martin not sure about who used the hard but Gundulphs pool was used by the RE for training and the RN for training mine clearance divers from DEODs at Lodge Hill. Assorted munitions dumped in there and the water stirred up with a couple of pumps so they were working blind
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Martin it may well be a multi service training area
I saw training on the Medway in 2019, they were using the concrete wharf wall opposite the dockyard in the general are of the aggregate plant. Approaching at high speed and putting the boats bow first against the wall. Not sure what service they were as they were dressed in black. Police?
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These are the boats I was referring to:https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Assault_boats_and_Upnor_Castle.jpg
They're driven at all around the Medway ignoring colregs and speed limits! To be fair, they are powerful enough to get out of "situations" and very skillfully handled, so like police cars on the road they can get away with it. They do appear to be RE: Mk 6 Assault Boats to my untrained eye.
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Stuartwaters I note in your very interesting blog ,mention of the RE Baracks ,plus your comment. "For how long"?Stuart is there any reason for that,not returned to my beloved Medway Towns for many years now(since the yard closed) my interest is as an ex Sapper I spent many happy hours/years in and around the Baracks,Lodge hill camp, upnor hard ,l know both Lodge hill/upnor hard have now gone
Are the Gillingham Baracks on the way out as well?
I'm sorry for the delay in responding to your point Colin, both work and home have been somewhat busy recently.
My comment about the Royal School of Military Engineering at Brompton was an echo of a point I made on the old Forum some time ago. At the time I made that comment (on the old Forum), our Armed Forces had endured round after round of cuts, with military base closures all over the country and all of the Armed Forces constantly shrinking. It is true that much of the RSME has been moved to Minley and I remember some years ago that there was a proposal to close Brompton and move it's remaining facilities to Minley. The proposal was dropped after a campaign by all the local MPs and senior figures in the Army at the time, but much of the work done by the Army there, such as teaching, has been civilianised. I saw last year that some of the married quarters houses at Brompton were made available for rent to the public.
Unfortunately, the Ministry of Defence and the Treasury (more the latter than the former) have a habit of getting what they want over time and I am old enough to remember the very slow death suffered by the Dockyard at Chatham before the axe finally fell in the Knott Review of 1981. For a good few years, the Dockyard was a dumping ground for obsolete ships, or ships which were not cost effective to keep running and diesel submarine and surface ship refit work was sparse to say the least. The only thing keeping the Dockyard open throughout the 1970s was the Nuclear Complex. Once they started to build a new complex at Devonport, the writing was on the wall.
I know that Boris has recently announced a large(ish) uplift in Defence Spending recently, but that notwithstanding, the MOD still has a £17BN black hole in it's finances to fill, so although there will be more ships for the Royal Navy and new armoured vehicles for the Army, new planes for the RAF etc, savings still have to be made, and I would not be in the least bit surprised if the axe falls on Brompton at some point in the next decade. It's already fallen on Invicta Park in Maidstone and Howe Barracks in Canterbury has already been demolished.
The sad fact is that tanks, jet fighters and warships don't win votes come General Election time, schools and hospitals do. I just hope that the complacency of many Governments of all political flavours over past years doesn't jump up and bite us on the backside.
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Hi Shoot 999,yes I forgot the Maidstone road guard house,did you ever venture into the moat,the place with the coverd rifle range?we eventually found our way to Shorts underground factory down the ventilation /escape shafts in the moat,allso in the grounds of the guard house was a block of cells ,I recall on the defunct fourum we had a chap who actually lived in the building affixed to the cells.thanks for reminding me,
I have only have some recollections about the guardhouse. I know it was so easy to get into. Fearsome unscalable iron railings, interspersed with easy to climb concrete pillars! :) I do remember the block of cells and the walk up the trench to Fort Clarence. Then over the road to the gardens and a climb down the bridge for entry into a set of tunnels. I went back a few years ago only to find the bridge gone and large parts of the area fenced off.
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I thought it's about time I added to this fascinating thread.
I live within or next to the grounds of the lost Ersham House in Canterbury.
It was a large house in landscaped gardens and was purchased at one time by a Russian family, the Tchitcherines. From what I understand, the family had fled from Russia at some point and settled in Canterbury. In 1914 Ersham House was requisitioned and the family moved to Ethelbert Road in Canterbury. Ersham House became the HQ of the 337 Field Ambulance Division. After the war, the family went to return to Ersham House but found it in a very bad state and decided to remain in Ethelbert Road. Ersham House gradually fell into serious repair and was eventually demolished. Telephone House was later built on the land.
I would like to learn more details but information seems to be rather sketchy. Feel free to correct or add to my post.
Here are some items I have been able to find so far.
Photo credits to Paul Crampton
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A couple more items regarding Ersham House
TCHITCHERINE in the Canterbury area ie. Alexandra of independant means from Russia of 21 Ethelbert Road, Canterbury granted British nationality 6 Aug 1929 (born c1891 d1961?)
Helen of "Wilstead", Ethelbert Rd, Canterbury (born c1858) died 26 Jan 1931. Probate granted to Boris TCHITCHERINE esq. and John Steggall SAWYER chartered accountant £8283. Funeral notice in "The Times" notes widow of Andrew and sister of the late John HOWARD - funeral to take place at Lyminge.
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My thanks to John Walker for his excellent posts about Ersham House and the Tchitcherines.
I had a little wander around Google for half an hour but couldn't find anything substantial to add. I must say that I find social history and its tiny details the most absorbing of all.
Thanks again John!
Alec.
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John Walker
Having looked into the site of Ersham House in the past, it appears it was formerly called 'The Paddock' when it was first built c.1825. It was the home of Mr Richard Halcroft, Esq. (1754 - 1823) a wealthy financier with the local bank Baker & Co. and was a former mayor of Canterbury (c. 1785) and possibly High Sheriff of Kent. There was until its demolition in the 1950s, a portrait of him hanging in the former Canterbury Guildhall on the junction of Guildhall Street and High Street, Canterbury. Document associated with the formal laying out and construction of 'The Paddock' are with the Cathedral Archives (CCC-DCc/AddMS/105, where its description is: Relating to 'The Paddock' (house, yard and stables) off Upper Chantry Lane, Canterbury. The house became known as Ersham House, It served as riding stables some years ago. Before that it was occupied by Mr Cattell, veterinary surgeon (c.1923). An alley beside it led to the backs of houses in St George's Place) as well as CCA-CC-P/1/K/44 and CCA-U538/6/1).
In the book 'An Epitome of County History, Kent' (Vol. 1: 1838) the house is described as being 'In the suburbs of Canterbury, on the right hand side of the road to Dover, is The Paddock, the seat of Richard Halford, Esq. It is a handsome house, surrounded by pleasant grounds, and screened from the road by a wall and plantations'.
I hope this helps?
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Thank you for all that further information. Your research skills are obviously way ahead of mine. :)
Really adds interest to a lost building that was once within a few hundred metres of where I now live.
John
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Certainly not way ahead, just once it's former name of 'The Paddock' was established slightly more info came about.