The Kent History Forum
Members Only Area => General Discussion => Topic started by: JohnH on December 31, 2019, 02:31:48 PM
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Perhaps it is because I have poor computer literacy, but I really have no idea how to get information transferred from the old Kent History Forum site to the new. There is much of interest, particularly relating to railways, buses and maritime matters which will be lost if someone does not come up with a way of transferring these parts of the old site on to the present site. And the latest issue of "Invicta" (the journal of the South Eastern and Chatham Railway Society) refers to historic items on Kent History Forum regarding the former SECR. Is all this material just to be allowed to be summarily lost? Somebody please do something about it!
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I believe there are concerns over copyright. If you take an extended piece of work (such as one of BligeRat's ship articles) you can't just copy it over without permission. If the original author is a member of the new forum, they can copy it (since they are the copyright holder), but where the original author is no longer active then the information may indeed be lost.
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I believe there are concerns over copyright. If you take an extended piece of work (such as one of BligeRat's ship articles) you can't just copy it over without permission. If the original author is a member of the new forum, they can copy it (since they are the copyright holder), but where the original author is no longer active then the information may indeed be lost.
That's certainly the situation as far as I'm aware. It's a shame, but there you are. Christmas, work and other things have held me up with copying over stuff from the old forum, but if there are any contributors on the old forum on here, I need you to think about copying your stuff over from there. Otherwise, as Martin states, once the domain name runs out on the old Forum, it'll be lost for good.
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The thread on "RTA early 1960s" (although I think it really should be some time in the 1950s) shows the aftermath of an accident involving a Bedford van and two elderly buses from the Contract Bus Company. Just before the site conked out, I asked the question as to whether either The Omnibus Society or The PSV Circle (or perhaps some other group) ever produced a fleet list for The Contract Bus Company. It would be good if the person who started that thread could transfer it to the new site.
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I believe there are concerns over copyright. If you take an extended piece of work (such as one of BligeRat's ship articles) you can't just copy it over without permission. If the original author is a member of the new forum, they can copy it (since they are the copyright holder), but where the original author is no longer active then the information may indeed be lost.
That's certainly the situation as far as I'm aware. It's a shame, but there you are. Christmas, work and other things have held me up with copying over stuff from the old forum, but if there are any contributors on the old forum on here, I need you to think about copying your stuff over from there. Otherwise, as Martin states, once the domain name runs out on the old Forum, it'll be lost for good.
I've been doing so, as you know, but its all windmill/watermill related.
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What about 'copyright' of articles by someone dead?
mmitch.
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Well if normal copyright laws apply, the copyright exists for 70 years after the death. Who owns the copyright will depend upon the will of the deceased. Remember that the copyright holder doesn't have to make the copy, only give permission. But this is my understanding: IANAL!
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I agree with you MartinR that's my understanding.
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The thing is there is a post somewhere on the old site where i mentioned that not only are pictures supposedly copyright but writings are also.... But nobody commented on that aspect?
The old site is full of just simply copied writing's so where does one stand copying a copy?
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Copying a copy is copying just the same. :-\ Have a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orphan_work (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orphan_work) for the problems of copyright where the holders are untraceable. Fuller information is at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orphan_Works_Directive (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orphan_Works_Directive) and the UK licensing regime at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/copyright-orphan-works (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/copyright-orphan-works)
tldr: it's a minefield
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The only way to make sure is for somebody to contact the owner of the original Forum and gain access to the original contributor's email address. We all know how that turned out last time we tried it.
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Old forum is now in maintenance mode with this message:
"As per KHF guidelines KHF retains copyright of all posts. If you wish to copy you need authors permission"
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Old forum is now in maintenance mode with this message:
"As per KHF guidelines KHF retains copyright of all posts. If you wish to copy you need authors permission"
What a great shame. We all put many hours of input, time and effort into many posts on that forum. We can always resurrect our posts with a bit of effort, the shame is that Peter Challis' inputs and recollections are now lost.
DTT
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Oh dear. Well, let's see what (if anything) happens now. I still haven't managed to move all my stuff over yet. I wouldn't be surprised if that was done to stop us moving things to the new one.
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Oh dear. Well, let's see what (if anything) happens now. I still haven't managed to move all my stuff over yet. I wouldn't be surprised if that was done to stop us moving things to the new one.
Well we didn't have to wait long to see what happened. ;D ;D ;D
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Given the way this thread is going I thought that I would revisit the old site.
First thing is a red banner:
News: The original Kent History Forum.
Not affiliated or supportive of any duplicate sites!
Shame about the grammar....
Next, I can't log in. My log in is stored on my laptop and I also tried manually entering the details. No result. So copyright or not, I have no access.
Have we original malcontents been banned? Or is it another unintended feature after someone has obviously visited?
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I tried to access the old forum as a casual guest - no access.
Searched and found an article on the old forum via google search. Click to enter and you end up back at the same dead end Home Page.
It would seem that the old forum is now dead.
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Given the way this thread is going I thought that I would revisit the old site.
First thing is a red banner:
News: The original Kent History Forum.
Not affiliated or supportive of any duplicate sites!
Shame about the grammar....
Next, I can't log in. My log in is stored on my laptop and I also tried manually entering the details. No result. So copyright or not, I have no access.
Have we original malcontents been banned? Or is it another unintended feature after someone has obviously visited?
Just weird stuff now. She hasn't let anyone post for over a year, and anyone would think she wants it to carry on like that. As said before I've spoken to Kyn on the phone before and she was lovely. I'm guessing she's in a very dark place.
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And I can't log in either.
I've moved at least ten of my posts, and chucked in some more that I would have put up on the old one, if I was allowed to. At least they were posts I've actually written I guess, l so no copyright issues there.
I will miss the comments though, and the problem solving.
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I have just been over to the old site. I think the old site owner, means that you took the Old Site
name, lock, stock, and barrel. Perhaps if you stuartwalters, as the new site owner ADDED an extra
word to the title - even putting, like the ` newkenthistoryforum ` that may satisfy the old owner,
because, it would get up my nose, if someone took over MY site and used it as their own.
That is MY opinion - other members may have different views ?
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I have just been over to the old site. I think the old site owner, means that you took the Old Site
name, lock, stock, and barrel. Perhaps if you stuartwalters, as the new site owner ADDED an extra
word to the title - even putting, like the ` newkenthistoryforum ` that may satisfy the old owner,
because, it would get up my nose, if someone took over MY site and used it as their own.
That is MY opinion - other members may have different views ?
does it matter? She hasn't allowed anyone to post for over a year... has been very stroppy about anyone helping and has said fairly recently that she will be shutting it down asap. The asap bit hasn't happened as quickly as that would suggest etc etc.
If you type 'Kent History Forum' into google, you get two hits. One you can't join or post or comment, and one you can. So no one's taken over anything, except ensure that it continues, in some shape or form.
I don't think it's got a lot to do with the name.... just a lot of anger in general. Poor kyn.
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No one has taken over anyone's site. Especially the one where the owner has barred forum members from posting, insulted them, and then barred then from even entering the thing.
Perhaps they ought to do what they said they would. Let it die. Then their would be no supposed duplication.
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I don't know about everyone else but when I write a long post, I research and put it together in Word first, and read it through before posting it.
So it's been quite easy to put my posts back up.
The discussions are another thing though, and will be sorely missed.
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I've already copied across everything that I needed to, so no problem there. The issue is with people who may have wanted to, but haven't got around to it yet, or others that are still unaware of the new forum and who now won't have a chance even if they want to. If things stay as they are you now can't even view posts as a guest, so all of that information, some of it not published anywhere else by people who are no longer with us, will be gone for good.
I've also spoken to Kyn - in person - and as you say she came across as a very nice young lady, so all the more perplexing.
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I don't know about everyone else but when I write a long post, I research and put it together in Word first, and read it through before posting it.
So it's been quite easy to put my posts back up.
The discussions are another thing though, and will be sorely missed.
Ditto, but I use Notepad rather than Word. As far as the old Forum is concerned, I'm not going to speculate about what the owner is up to or why, I'll just wait and see what happens next. I would say that I think that the 'news' item on the landing page is childish, but not surprising. As far as copyright is concerned, the statement that the copyright on articles belongs to the Forum needs some clarification. If she means that it belongs to her as the Forum owner, she is sadly mistaken. The copyright over any article belongs to it's author and nobody else.
As far as the name of this website is concerned, this was chosen because the message we had from the old Forums owner made perfectly clear that it was finished and was going to be shut down. Like anybody else, I can only make decisions based on information to hand at the time. It wasn't a question of 'nicking' or hijacking the old forum at all, it was more a case of continuing with something people were already familiar with.
The only stuff I had left to move to the new Forum was articles about Chatham-built submarines post Great War. I suppose it gives me the opportunity to completely rewrite them.
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I would of thought not being able to copy your own material over to here would be a sin, why can't you copy and keep on your own HDD as you are the owner or author?
If there is a blockage to stop it being done then perhaps more action could be sought?
If i remember correctly one cannot sign in if in Maintenance Mode!
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*** Access possible via digital archives ***
I can still access parts of it by the waybackmachine. If you don't know what this is, then I suggest a quick look at Wikipedia (see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayback_Machine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayback_Machine))
This is an imprint for March 31st 2018 which should help. You may find other dates may or may not work. And indeed some of the sub-pages. If a page does not work, try another archive imprint date. The important thing about the wayback machine is patience to look around for what you need.
Anyway, this link works for the forum and subject I looked for.
I would suggest a quick look and copy of personal/author owned data in acccordance with copyright requirements. Use my link then navigate around in the usual way. You wont be able to login, this is a digital copy, not working HTML code.
https://web.archive.org/web/20171226123956/http://www.kenthistoryforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=8750.0 (https://web.archive.org/web/20171226123956/http://www.kenthistoryforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=8750.0)
DTT
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This link will take you to the page where all of the snapshots can be found. As you say though, the coverage is sketchy and you still may not find what you're looking for. Could still be of some use if the old forum remains unavailable.
https://web.archive.org/web/20190601000000*/http://www.kenthistoryforum.co.uk
Clicking on this link directly won't work, you have to select it all and then chose "go to web address" or copy and paste in url bar.
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This may be the most important find as removed post's on the old forum due to Maintenance have already been copied to the digital archives ?
I have just successfully been there on my mobile with posts to 2018.....
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Now apparently being called The original Kent History Forum Archive.
"Ken History Forum Archive will reopen once essential work has been carried out, please check back!" although I'm not sure who Ken is!
Anyway, at least it might be coming back in archive form.
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And don't forget that the old forum STILL isn't secure. This means that any personal data you put on there, for example your e-mail address, is vulnerable to being hijacked or stolen. Look for the little padlock symbol on your browser address line. This website IS secure, so you can put your personal data on it without fear of it being stolen or hijacked.
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Thanks. Explains why I couldn't visit the 'old site' and copy the posts that I put up to transfer to the new forum.
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I have just been back to this `Internet Archives`. Mostly on my brief visit. (20 mins ) --- Were
VINTAGE CARTOONS
THE THREE STOOGES
BETTY BOOP
SOME OF THESE ARE ONLY `TRAILERS `.
It is worthwihile going back, as it `jogs ` the memory, as to what we did put on the old site,
then we can remember the material, & repeat it--- on this site.
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Looks like it may have finally given up the ghost?
"Internal Server Error"
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Assuming that users have cleared down their cache and cookies on their browsers, the 500 Internal Server Error is a catch-all error code thrown out when the server is unable for any reason to satisfy a client request. It could be anything, a misconfiguration in the .htaccess file (which tells the server how to handle such requests), a resource timeout (where something in the server takes too long to respond), or issues triggered by incorrect file or directory permissions.
It doesn't necessarily mean that the site is permanently dead, but it's certainly unwell. It may be that someone has been playing with the SMF software on the server and has screwed something up.
The only thing I can suggest is to keep an eye on it. It may well spring into life later on in whatever form.
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Assuming that users have cleared down their cache and cookies on their browsers, the 500 Internal Server Error is a catch-all error code thrown out when the server is unable for any reason to satisfy a client request. It could be anything, a misconfiguration in the .htaccess file (which tells the server how to handle such requests), a resource timeout (where something in the server takes too long to respond), or issues triggered by incorrect file or directory permissions.
It doesn't necessarily mean that the site is permanently dead, but it's certainly unwell. It may be that someone has been playing with the SMF software on the server and has screwed something up.
The only thing I can suggest is to keep an eye on it. It may well spring into life later on in whatever form.
I posted a great deal on the old site. I haven't cleared my cache or previous posts. Should I be worried?
Mike
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I went there yesterday and your link worked and could read posts.... going back after a few minutes and no go at all so as you say maybe that is it!
I just can't believe that somebody responsible for such History of Kent that so many people have contributed to are allowed just to shut it all down for good?
I wonder what the members rules were when joining?
There must be something someone can do about it?
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I went there yesterday and your link worked and could read posts.... going back after a few minutes and no go at all so as you say maybe that is it!
I just can't believe that somebody responsible for such History of Kent that so many people have contributed to are allowed just to shut it all down for good?
There must be something someone can do about it?
The trouble is I can't remember what I posted or if I should be very worried. I assume the old site has my contact details etc..
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The trouble always was that like a boy who owns the football if he does not get his way then he shouts its my ball and I'm taking it away. That's how the old forum was run, play by her rules or else. So I doubt that anything further can be done to rescue the locked up history.
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Barry5X,
Have you read the posts here about the Wayback Machine? You may be able to recover some or all of your contributions to the old KHF using this method. Worth a try.
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Could I please ask why the content of my post #Reply 40 has been deleted.
I spent a lot of time in composing this post which was placed on the New Kent History Forum with a genuine concern with regards to the considerable data and history relating to Kent that has been lost by the disappearance of the original Kent History Forum managed by Kyn.
In particular 2 posts: one of which referred to Sheerness Technical School matters and the other to National Service of a Sittingbourne Lad who served in the Buffs with a spell in Suez - both of which were highly popular based upon their viewing figures and to which I offered significant input.
There was nothing offensive in the post - just a personal request to see the original site restored and be made accessible as an archive source.
If someone has found my reply offensive in any manner, or it has been requested to be removed - can I ask that this be made public on this Topic. Otherwise an explanation would be appreciated.
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There was a problem with the site and all manner of stuff was deleted. Primarily, the contents of the settings file on the server, which caused the site to go down altogether. I fixed that, but subsequently found all manner of other data was missing, including all my 'Nelsons Navy' posts. I have a backup dating from the middle of May and will have a look for your post in it. If your post was on the forum before then, I'll be able to restore it.
Short of going through every single thread on the Forum, I have no way of finding out what went missing apart from people telling me.
Needless to say, I've now implemented a regime of daily backups.....
This thread has all the gory details
https://kenthistoryforum.com/index.php?topic=509.0 (https://kenthistoryforum.com/index.php?topic=509.0)
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I was able to restore your post about Sir Alexander Fleming's treatment of your sister.
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Hello stuart - my diary on the Coronavirus 2020 from day one - March 10th has gone.
Only a `like ` from bertoid was saved - the last page !
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Give me a couple of hours and I'll look into it.
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i had a load of stuff on the old forum a few years back, a few pics on the mines