Author Topic: Spitfire crash 11th October 1940  (Read 3301 times)

Offline grandarog

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Re: Spitfire crash 11th October 1940
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2021, 06:39:25 PM »
Thanks again for input chaps.
Regarding small link inserts .I have found the only way that works for me is to open the post again with Modify button. Select the mini line of the link , then go to the Font size dropdown and select 12 or 14. This brings the link size up so when I save post it is readable.
 Hope this helps .
Maybe Stuart could look into it when he has time,as it never used to happen.


Offline Cosmo Smallpiece

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Re: Spitfire crash 11th October 1940
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2021, 06:17:53 PM »
I had no more luck with the button poking in my previous post than you did Nemo!


I will drop the images from 72 Sqn ORB here so that everyone can see what was being talked about. I'm guessing the two pilots down later (08:40hrs) are possibly the two guys that Pool claimed hung around to shepherd his descent. The others seemed to have returned in dribs and drabs? I did notice that three others had already returned by 08:10 hrs which had caused me to presume that the incident would not have happened that far from B-H?







Offline Nemo

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Re: Spitfire crash 11th October 1940
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2021, 11:50:35 AM »
I suspect Grandarog is correct when he says that a complete solution is doubtful.

Neither Pool nor Squadron 72's ORBs give a location for the interception, the latter saying only that the intention was for the 11 Spitfires up from BH at 07:35 to patrol off Deal (at 10,000ft). They were back at BH without further loss by 08:43 and with no claims made.

Assuming I'm reading them correctly, German records are no help either; two pilots from Stab II/JG 53 claimed a Spitfire at 08:55 (their time?) but the location is not recorded.

(Drat, poked the button and still the link appears small; that's my Kindle for you!)

http://aces.safarikovi.org/luftwaffe.wartime.aerial.victory.credits.html

Offline Cosmo Smallpiece

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Re: Spitfire crash 11th October 1940
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2021, 09:05:58 AM »
It's a shame Dorissdad has not popped back here since. I would be curious as why he seeks this location and what sources he may have already tried?


If he does, it's worth highlighting the only rough location given for the spitfire crash is the vicinity of the paper mill. I wonder if the pilot logbook (possibly in family hands) gave up that information?


In the link I first posted, Swift to Battle, there is a further image of Peter Pool on the page following the account of his parachute descent. This image of him and Diana is credited to D.E.Pool, probably his wife Diana Eileen Pool?

Offline grandarog

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Re: Spitfire crash 11th October 1940
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2021, 09:29:12 PM »
Cosmo Smallpiece's Post raises some very good points.
           Might I suggest that in actual fact P/O Pool actually baled out a lot nearer to Sittingbourne than he thought.
          Looking down on East Kent from 22.000 feet ( just over 4 Miles altitude)gives a very wide view. While the combat started over Deal, he may have assumed he was still directly above, when in fact he could have been any where within 30 miles or so and still be able to look down on Deal from that height.
          Also he says "at least 20 mins". I don't think we will find a complete solution to this incident.
          Hopefully Dorissdad Jeremy will log on soon and perhaps have some more info about his question.

Offline Cosmo Smallpiece

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Re: Spitfire crash 11th October 1940
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2021, 01:58:09 PM »
I can't help with what point may have been missed? I can try to clarify my maths....


A 20 minute parachute descent is one third of an hour. Covering a 36 mile horizontal distance in that time then multiply by three for the full hour equals 108 mph average speed.


108mph is an interesting speed as it's about terminal velocity for a person falling to earth in a belly flop position, without a parachute. It's also the average speed of a modern wingsuit. The world record distance travelled in optimum conditions with a modern wingsuit is under 19 miles.

https://wnyskydiving.com/blog/wingsuit-speed-how-fast-can-you-go-in-a-wingsuit/#:~:text=The%20average%20wingsuit%20speed%20is,speed%20takes%20practice%20and%20precision.

Offline de Mol

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Re: Spitfire crash 11th October 1940
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2021, 04:08:07 PM »
@grandarog"Incidently I wish folks would read through the previous posts before posting."
Could you be a bit more precise please ;)
@Local Hiker.Thank you for your help!
Martin.

Offline Local Hiker

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Re: Spitfire crash 11th October 1940
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2021, 07:41:36 PM »
To recover normal formatting if text is too big or too small, as in recent posts,
use the "Remove Formatting" button before posting,

Offline grandarog

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Re: Spitfire crash 11th October 1940
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2021, 06:11:24 PM »
He would be falling Diagonally from 22000ft so quite feasable to drift 36 miles with a following wind.
My maths is not good enough to work out 108mph speed.
Its far more likely he landed near Sittingbourne as he stated in his letter to the Irwin Parachute Company ,than his heavy free falling burning aircraft, landing near Milton from above Deal.


Incidently I wish folks would read through the previous posts before posting.

Offline Cosmo Smallpiece

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Re: Spitfire crash 11th October 1940
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2021, 02:36:08 PM »
If he actually bailed out over Deal and landed by parachute 36 miles away in Milton Regis 20 minutes later, then he achieved a fairly remarkable 108 mph drift horizontally in the wind!

Offline de Mol

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Re: Spitfire crash 11th October 1940
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2021, 02:04:39 PM »
Can't see his combat report but here are a couple of links (dunno why they're so small!):
The latter gives the site of the plane coming down as Milton Regis.


https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C17386829

http://www.bbm.org.uk/airmen/Pool.htm
I had problems writing as well.

Offline de Mol

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Re: Spitfire crash 11th October 1940
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2021, 02:01:30 PM »
Can't see his combat report but here are a couple of links:
The latter gives the site of the plane coming down as Milton Regis.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C17386829
http://www.bbm.org.uk/airmen/Pool.htm
Thank you for the Link Nemo.
Very misleading that Report as of many I have found.Most say "Shot down off Deal".
"Pool moved to 72 Squadron at Biggin Hill on 3rd October. He was shot down in flames by a Me109 during combat over a convoy off Deal on the 11th and baled out, wounded. His Spitfire, K9870, crashed at Milton Regis, Sittingbourne."
Shot down in Flames!If I am right Milton Regis is approximately 36 Miles from Deal,would that be possible?
Welcome dorissdad.
Martin.

Offline Nemo

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Re: Spitfire crash 11th October 1940
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2021, 01:50:10 PM »
Can't see his combat report but here are a couple of links (dunno why they're so small!)
The latter gives the site of the plane coming down as Milton Regis: "Pool moved to 72 Squadron at Biggin Hill on 3rd October. He was shot down in flames by a Me109 during combat over a convoy off Deal on the 11th and baled out, wounded. His Spitfire, K9870, crashed at Milton Regis, Sittingbourne."

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C17386829http://www.bbm.org.uk/airmen/Pool.htm


http://www.bbm.org.uk/airmen/Pool.htm

Offline Cosmo Smallpiece

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Re: Spitfire crash 11th October 1940
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2021, 10:22:41 AM »
It's curious that his surname is spelt Poole in some accounts and Pool in others.


He is Poole in the 72sqn ORB record of events. This half of the ORB is downloadable free currently from the Natioal Archives. This only shows him as "bailed out" on that day with no location. It's a bit blurred but there may also be a typo on the aircraft serial as k9570. Whereas k9870 is mentioned on previous days. The other "juicy" part of the ORB I cannot see online, but this is probably the source of Pool's letter in that book. I would have expected a combat report of the incident in that half.


Another place to check is the war diary of 207th heavy anti aircraft battery in the Nat Archives. They were stationed at Iwade an often record details of aerial actions around their emplacements. Again sadly not avaliable online.

Offline grandarog

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Re: Spitfire crash 11th October 1940
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2021, 07:11:10 AM »
Having read the excerpt from the book Cosmo Smallpiece has posted .
It now looks to me where the confusion has occured.
It is quite logical that P/P Pool landed near Sittingbourne, with a westerly wind from 22.000 ft ,having drifted down on his chute. 
Whereas his aircraft, as it was on fire would have fallen much closer to the Deal area ,above which it was hit.