Guess the Place

[John Walker]

Interesting stuff.  I've been going to that area since I was a nipper and don't recall seeing that lift.  In the 60s, Hades Night Club was underground at the Lido.  We supplied some of the equipment.  It had a great atmosphere with all the disco lighting but when the service lights were on, it was a dirty tip of a place.


This photo shows the Lido in its prime.  The lift can be seen on the left, partly hidden behind the cliff.

[MartinR]

I've been doing a bit of research on the site, and the story is quite complex.
Margate Cliff Railway was constructed during the winter of 1912-1913 to provide access from the top of the cliffs
to the promenade below.  As of 2022 all that remains is the concrete slope of the railway.  The whole Lido complex, including
the openair swimming pool at the foot of the cliffs, was built over the site of the original Clifton Baths during the 1920s.
The remains of the original baths are listed grade II.

The cliff railway was constructed as an inclined lift, not a funicular, having just a single carriage.
It ran on a straight 5' gauge track from a top station opposite the end of Athelstan Rd down to the promenade on a 45°
slope for a distance of 60'.  The lift was counter-balanced by a weight running in a vertical shaft.  As originally
constructed it ran down behind the face of the cliff, but by 1972 this portion of the cliff had eroded.  Further erosion
is visible on the current photograph.

Location:

• Nat Grid:    TR 36041 71392
• Post Code:   CT9 1RX
• WGS84:       51°23'33"N 001°23'29"N or 51.39244,1.39150

GSV:

• Aerial view:                  https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3922953,1.3913152,188a,48y,358.36h,0.23t/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1
• View from promenade: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3925466,1.3913819,3a,75y,149.01h,97.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sV-hKoubFC8FWlAGPSnS65Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1

Additional views:

• Today: http://www.hows.org.uk/personal/rail/mar.htm
• 1972:  https://www.flickr.com/photos/28083135@N06/5152003267/in/pool-886903@N22/
• 1930:  https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1392729?section=comments-and-photos

[Stewie]

Spot on Johnwalker, described on the internet as the Margate beach railway but it did link to Cliftonville Lido. Apparently came out of use late 1970’s. I chose the photo because it was taken on the same walk to Broadstairs that took us past the mysterious tunnels in the previous GTP. Over to you 🤓👍

[John Walker]

A funicular down to the bathing pool at the Lido Cliftonville?  I can't see any steps on GSV so that's why my guess is a funicular.

[Stewie]

Thankyou Beach bum. Mrs Stewie and myself walked from Minnis Bay to Margate a couple of years ago and along the promenade approaching Epple Bay, came across a number of abandoned tunnels and substantial brickworks. Many of the tunnels have been sealed but one climbed via a flight of stairs up from the promenade coming out between two houses in what I thought was St Magnus Close. The brickwork which is quite substantial in places and to me resembles that found on some of the 'Palmerstone Folly' era forts so possibly Victorian. At the time, we could not identify why the area needed so many tunnels as there seemed to be no obvious reason for them either above or on the promenade itself. We noticed the ramps down to the sea from the promenade but these seem to be newer than the brickwork so may be a red herring. We were later told that the tunnels pre date the concrete promenade, so most likely would have given access to a beach area.
I don't have much to entertain you with so will put up this offering taken a couple of years ago as well. Can you say where it is and what it was?

[Beachbum]

John Walker's photo is spot on for the location, so MartinR is correct with the references (Thank you).............

[Beachbum]

This is the current day view.............

[MartinR]

Thanks John.  I was looking at the grassed area, about halfway between your two arrows.  I think you have identified the exit but we'll have to wait for Beachbum to come back online.  Oops, we crossed in the post!

[Beachbum]

So this is Beresford Gap with a small slipway opposite the entrance as seen in the GSV.
The purpose of this entrance was to serve Englands first Bungalow Estate. Englands first Bungalow was built nearby at Westgate, unfortunately the site could only allow Bungalows to be built.
The original builder, John Taylor, then moved along the coast to where John Pollard Seddon, a well-known London architect, had bought land along the cliffs at Birchington at the time of the great railway boom of the 1860s.
 The Kentish Gazette of 1870 advertised 240 plots of freehold land for sale by Ventum, Bull and Cooper in the ‘rural simplicity of Birchington’. That year saw two small bungalows built each side of Coleman Stairs, later named ‘Fair Outlook’ and ‘Poets Corner’. In 1872 two more bungalows were built close by, ‘Delmonte’ and ‘White Cliffs’, with ‘Skyross’ added in 1873. These five bungalows were assured of “perfect privacy as there is no private right of way along the cliff”.Mostly they were known as "White Tower Bungalows" due to having a Tower within the Bungalow.Among the collection of some 2000 drawings by Seddon in the Victoria and Albert Museum is one sheet titled the "Cliff Estate" showing how he planned to develop and expand the site to incorporate the recently-constructed railway station, renamed Birchington-on-Sea in 1878, with the present Station House also designed by Seddon.The first 13 bungalows were intended as second homes for "gentlemen of position and leisure", enjoying the class distinctions of Victorian times.
Okay Stewie, over to you.......

[John Walker]

The view from above.  Looks like if might be used by the general public.


Also, as Stewie says, they were originally for large houses to have access to the promenade.  1907 map



Trying to work out the original clue - 'Good rail links here', apart from it's fairly close to Birchington Station?

[Stewie]

From memory, it came out here between two garages in St Magnus Close.

[MartinR]

The only entrance that matches that profile that I can find through GSV is opposite the slipway/beach access at:

• Nat Grid:     TR 30043 69903
• Post Code:  CT7 9UW
• WGS84:      51°22'54"N 001°18'16"E or 51.381533,1.304478

but that doesn't appear to correspond to any surface features on the cliff top.  Is this the right one?

[Stewie]

I was told that they were access paths to the promenade for large homes that used to stand on the cliffs, hence the large proliferation of them in the cliffs at this point.

[Beachbum]

Well done Stewie, that's the right location.
So bonus points for what they led up to originally?

[Stewie]

I have seen these before, I think that they are the tunnels along the promenade approaching Epple Bay. Many of the tunnels have been sealed but one (the one pictured?), climbed via a flight of stairs up from the promenade coming out between two houses in what I thought was St Magnus Close.