Author Topic: Guess the Place  (Read 1040049 times)

Offline grandarog

  • Mr
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1235
  • Man of Kent .Born and Bred.
Re: Guess the Place
« Reply #3377 on: December 15, 2020, 11:47:31 AM »
That looks like the river with Loose in the background. Might be wrong as have'nt been there since the 1970's for a Wedding at the Church.

Offline MartinR

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1576
  • Yorkshire exile, father of two Men of Kent
Re: Guess the Place
« Reply #3376 on: December 15, 2020, 11:40:19 AM »
Just to add a snippet to John's excellent piece; generations of schoolboys and lab staff regarded Whatman filters as the ONLY filter paper worth keeping in the lab.

Offline CAT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 591
Re: Guess the Place
« Reply #3375 on: December 15, 2020, 11:26:14 AM »
Many thanks John Walker, and very informative despite the fact I once worked there when the site was in the process of being converted into the industrial park, so I recognised the entrance under the railway bridge.


My next probably won't last long as it's a popular idyllic view from Kent. Don't be swayed by the colouring of the pic, which is applied by hand to an earlier black 'n' white picture of the late nineteenth century.

Offline John Walker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2851
Re: Guess the Place
« Reply #3374 on: December 15, 2020, 10:25:57 AM »



Well done CAT.  Over to you...

Here's a brief history of the mill which will explain my clues.   The seasonal clue was of course TURKEY mill.  the mill is just through the bridge.  Many of the original buildings appear to have survived.  Now a busy industrial estate.

Turkey Mill and Whatman's Paper.


Whatman's invention of wove paper without lines running through the structure. J Whatman's wove paper was stronger than laid paper as it was thicker throughout the entire sheet. Visible laid lines are areas where there is less paper material; the lighter areas are where the paper is thinner than the darker areas. In addition it was soaked in a gluey gelatin bath of cooked up hoofs and bones which made it extremely strong and less absorbent. The strength of this type of paper and the strong gelatine sizing allowed paint to move easily over its surface and multiple layers could be applied and then wiped, scratched, or scraped away without damaging the surface of the paper. These complicated subtractive techniques were brought to the highest level of virtuosity by J M W Turner who worked regularly on Whatman paper. In 1739 war broke out between France and Spain which stopped the importing of fine notepaper from the continent. The war ended in 1748 but by then English papermakers had secured the market. At the time of Whatman’s death in 1759, J Whatman had become the largest paper producer in the country.  Unusually, James Whatman's widow, Ann, continued to run the mill until their son, also called James, reached 21. Like his father he too was associated with many important developments in the field of papermaking; the use of blue smalts (a ground blue potassium glass containing cobalt) to improve the brightness of white paper and the use of chlorine to bleach coloured rags. James Whatman (the Younger) also introduced the use of metal 'Hollander' beaters to reduce the high power consumption synonymous with the crucial stage of fibre treatment in beaters. Under his leadership, Turkey Mill’s importance continued to grow until the name of Whatman was respected around the world.  As early as the 1760’s when wove paper was not yet widely available to artists, Thomas Gainsborough was anxious to use it for his watercolours.  In 1767 he wrote to bookseller James Dodsley in hope of obtaining some “it being what I have long been in search of for making wash’d  Drawings upon … There is so little impression of the wires, and those so very fine, that the surface is like vellum” Later Gainsborough wrote, “I beg you to accept my sincerest thanks for the favour you have done me concerning the paper for drawings. I had set my heart upon getting some of it, as it is so completely what I have long been in search of... upon my honour I would give a guinea a quire for a dozen quires of it”.  Whatman paper was used by JMW Turner, John Robert Cozens, John Sell Cotman and Cornelius Varley. William Blake used it for four of his illuminated books, the public being informed that they were printed on “the most beautiful wove paper that could be procured”.  Many of the watercolour masterpieces in the early nineteenth century are on paper bearing the “J. Whatman” or “J. Whatman/Turkey Mill” watermarks.  Throughout history Heads of State and world leaders have shown a particular penchant for Whatman paper.  Napoleon used Whatman paper for writing his will; George Washington signed many state documents on Whatman paper and Queen Victoria chose Whatman for her personal correspondence.  In the 1930’s Soviet leaders used Whatman paper to publish their five year plan for the future of the USSR, while the peace treaty with Japan was signed on Whatman paper at the close of World War II.


Offline CAT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 591
Re: Guess the Place
« Reply #3373 on: December 15, 2020, 08:21:14 AM »
I'm very aware of the point to GTP shoot999, however, I also enjoy the challenge of clarifying as many of the clues as possible of which John Walker is very good at supplying. The place is the the railway bridge over the entrance driveway to Turkey Court and Turkey Mill, from the Ashford Road (A20) on the eastern outskirts of Maidstone. I assume the associated personalities in John Walker's clues relate to the former owners of Turkey Court and the paper mill adjacent?


I'm sure John Walker will furnish us with the answers?

Offline John Walker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2851
Re: Guess the Place
« Reply #3372 on: December 14, 2020, 06:57:52 PM »
Can someone clarity that guessing the place correctly means you win and its your turn. The ancillary questions are just for fun?


Hi Shoot999. 


My understanding is that guessing the correct place/location of the photo is enough to win.  The rest are clues to help find it and to add any interest.


There is also a subtle seasonal connection  ;) 

Offline shoot999

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 539
Re: Guess the Place
« Reply #3371 on: December 14, 2020, 06:26:04 PM »
Can someone clarity that guessing the place correctly means you win and its your turn. The ancillary questions are just for fun?

Offline Diapason

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 458
Re: Guess the Place
« Reply #3370 on: December 14, 2020, 04:12:38 PM »
I`ve been trying to fit in William Blake (of "Jerusalem" fame), but failed. So it`s back to the drawing board.






Offline CAT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 591
Re: Guess the Place
« Reply #3369 on: December 14, 2020, 02:38:17 PM »
I think I have the location, but am struggling to get the personality associations. If someone beats me to it, then well done them.

Offline John Walker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2851
Re: Guess the Place
« Reply #3368 on: December 14, 2020, 01:21:28 PM »
To narrow down location. Just north of A20/M20?


Good question.    The bridge is about 1km south of the M20 and fractionally south of the A20.  That should narrow it down.

Offline shoot999

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 539
Re: Guess the Place
« Reply #3367 on: December 14, 2020, 12:36:29 PM »
To narrow down location. Just north of A20/M20?

Offline John Walker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2851
Re: Guess the Place
« Reply #3366 on: December 14, 2020, 12:12:44 PM »
Mid Kent.  This view can easily be seen on GSV.

Offline John Walker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2851
Re: Guess the Place
« Reply #3365 on: December 13, 2020, 11:20:14 AM »
Beyond the bridge is a connection with at least two famous artists, an English poet and engraver, British Royalty, a French Statesman, Parliament, the USSR and the peace treaty with Japan.

Offline John Walker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2851
Re: Guess the Place
« Reply #3364 on: December 12, 2020, 04:37:55 PM »
Clue time:


A busy 'A' road that used to be even busier is behind the camera position.  The rail line on the bridge is still in daily use.  The line does not slope as it appears in the photo. It's level.      There is a rail tunnel aprox 800 metres to the right.

The road passes over a river after the bridge.

Offline John Walker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2851
Re: Guess the Place
« Reply #3363 on: December 11, 2020, 10:22:47 PM »
Thanks Grandarog


I finally picked up on your subtle clue  (you all need to race further west from Medway..... )  Brands Hatch area?

Next one folks ...  Where is this distinctive bridge?