The Kent History Forum
Geography in Kent => City, Town and Village Histories => Topic started by: castle261 on May 02, 2020, 09:14:02 AM
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I have stood at the top of Magpie Hall Road looking over to the Hook & Hatchet in Walderslade.
That was ALL I saw in 1938 only the Hook & Hatchet + one or two houses next to it. All the fields
where we used to walk to & play, the exception, was a hill, filled with bungalows, only on the left
hand side. I visited one bungalow, bottom half made of concrete, top half, corrugated iron.
Walderslade was one of our playgrounds. Later to become, as we watched houses being built,
The Village of Walderslade
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C261. When my father retired from the Yard in 1958, my parents bought one of those corrugated iron bungalows in Princes Avenue; which was VERY unmade & ran down to Luton. It had a veranda running all the way round but was on a very steep slope, so gardening was very difficult. Across the road was a farm with cattle in the fields. When we returned to Kent to live in Maidstone in 1966, houses had already been built on the farmland and some new bungalows were being built dug into the steep bank- that was the garage with the bungalow built above. I can't remember whether Princes Avenue had been surfaced but if not, it was soon after.
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I have seen photos/postcards of the area around Walderslade, namely Walderslade Road, Chestnut Avenue and Dargets Road (when they were little more than dirt tracks), but having searched through my books on local history I'm beginning to think I must have seen them on the 'old' Forum. Either that, or they're in a book that I've lent out and which hasn't yet been returned.... :-\
Does anyone else remember these photos on the old Forum?
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Chestnut Avenue. No date, probably pre-war. I have quite a few others of the area, I will upload them if anyone wants to see them.
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Yes, that's one of the scenes! Thank you, Smiffy!
I would love to see them, if you don't mind uploading them? My mother remembers Walderslade as being completely rural and often described the area to me as being 'right out in the countryside' but as I was born in 1970, I have only known the area as being fairly built up, although obviously not quite to the extent that we see today!
Was it you who posted them previously? If so, thank you! It was fascinating to see how it all used to look!
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That`s Chestnut Avenue, as I remember it. Smiffy, we walked there for our chestnuts, gathering bits of wood, to knock them down. All I would need to do now, in the autumn, go to Letchworth Ave in
Chatham, near some schools, to knock them down.
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Three pictures of Walderslade Road. I believe most of the photo's I'll be posting date from the 1920's to the 1940's, before all of the development started. I come from the area myself, when the Wayfield and Weedswood estates had already been established. But there were still lots of wooded areas left to explore, and once you ventured beyond the junction with Chestnut Avenue towards Walderslade village, you were pretty much in the countryside again and it all felt very rural.
(https://i.postimg.cc/1twP2dTg/Walderslade-Road-1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/WzVjvnL5/Walderslade_Road-2.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZnLmKdJ4/Walderslade_Road-3.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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A couple of views of Waterworks hill
(https://i.postimg.cc/159P7JKt/Waterworks_Hill.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/kXfC0Kjy/WaterworksHill.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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This is how I remember the `Hill `Smiffy. Let me explain to those who may not know the area.
1st photo, we are looking towards `Huntsman Corner `the two houses, at the end of the Hill.
Magpie Hall Road (top) is the row of houses ( where 3 huge air raid shelters were built,
on what is called the `Coney Banks ` (pronounced Connie ) --------- in WW2
Photo 2 - Mr. Auger`s farm entrance led off from the right kerb
The Waterworks is behind the Iron Railings.
Photo`s 3.4.5. -- I can not idendify - in Walderslade Road-- yet.
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The trouble with trying to identify locations like this is that even if the original building is still there, it may have undergone so many alterations over the years that it eventually becomes hard to recognise. I have a picture of one of the original buildings that's still present which I'll post in due course.
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Interesting use Castle261 of the word 'Coney' being spoken as 'Connie'. Was this a later reference to a person called 'Connie' living locally and the place name altering accordingly? As you may know, a 'Coney' is an old English word for a rabbit (without getting into the Tolkien debate), with Cony Bank suggestive of a rabbit warren. Seen throughout the rural landscape these are usually nature (rabbits) taking control of a suitable portion of a landscape, or created by man as part of the food resource to a large house or estate.
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Do as I did CAT, put `Coney Banks ` in with your cursor, & see what come`s up.
Two photo`s ( 3/4 ) going down, are the same, photo 3, taken a bit further away.
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Castle261, I've not heard about these air raid shelters before, can you remember their precise location?
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From `Huntsman Corner` to down to nearly`Kitchener Avenue `I watched them being built.
Across the `Magpie Hall Road `the soil/chalk was dug out by hand, then I think a concrete base
was used. I remember light coloured bricks were used, to build up to the roof, made of concrete
These three were long, parallel with Magpie, I would say over each, 60/70 foot long, then covered.
They must have been for all the Magpie residents, above Kitchener Ave, as the houses, back on to
the `new` cemetery. If not for air raid shelter`s, for what other purpose.?
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The Hook & Hatchet pub, looking south. There is a reference to the pub from 1739, although this one dates from after 1903, being rebuilt due to a fire. To the right you can see the dew pond, which looks like it may be frozen over. There is a picture of the older pub which may have dated from 1777 and looks quite different from this later one. The settled area around the Hook & Hatchet may predate the village of Walderslade itself, the road here being known as Hook and Hatchet Road previous to the 1930's. The pub name was changed to the "Poachers Pocket" in 1973 - I seem to remember something about this being the result of some legal issue, but I can't find the source for this.
(https://i.postimg.cc/ryhtszgF/Hook-Hatchet.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Another of the Hook & Hatchet, this one dating from the 1920's
(https://i.postimg.cc/j28qjwbV/Hook-Hatchet-1920-s.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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It's great to see those photos, Smiffy. Thank you for posting them! The house on the far right in the photo 'Walderslade Road, Walderslade (3)', my mother remembers as being painted dark green, I don't know if this minor detail jogs anyone's memory of the area!
As for the pub, you mention that the name was changed from the Hook and Hatchet to The Poacher's Pocket, possibly for legal reasons, in 1973. Sometime in the 1990's (I think!) the pub closed for renovation and reopened as the Hook and Hatchet, but it was very quickly changed back to the Poacher's Pocket - within, I seem to remember, a matter of a few months. The speed with which it reverted back to the Poacher's Pocket does indeed suggest that there are some legal issues concerning the name. It would be interesting to know exactly what they are!
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I worked at Whitbreads at the time it changed to Poachers Pocket., nothing sinister just a renaming and rebranding to attract new clientele. As to why it changed to H&H and changed back again it may well have been legal or licencing committee trying to keep pubs with different names to avoid confusion with Hucking by that time it would have been a freehouse or owned by a pub group not Whitbread Inns
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Smiffy,
In the first photo of your reply no.14 there is a building just past the pub. I've no idea what its original purpose was but in 1956 and for the only time in my life I attended a Sunday school there.
The reason for the upsurge in interest by us ragamuffins from the Wayfield Estate was that being it was Easter everyone who attended would be given a small Easter egg. The place was packed to the rafters! :) I got my egg but never went there again.
Have "Sunday schools" passed into history now I wonder?
Alec.
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Sunday schools, or their equivalent, still exist. Rochester Cathedral, for example, has the "Sunday Club" which covers baby to 18 years in a series of different classes.
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Sunday School 1930s style -- You had to attend the Sunday School in the afternoon. You were
given a card, which was stamped with a star, with a religious card as well. By getting your card
stamped, that means you could attend the film show, on Monday evening, for free. If not, you had
to pay 1d to get in. Families were crafty, by sending their children off on Sunday & Monday, they
gained a piece of free time, for them selves. This was on the corner of Mills Terrace/ Magpie Hall
Road, in Chatham. Too good to miss.
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There was another reason for afternoon Sunday Schools being popular with parents. Think about cramped houses and then consider "the children went off to Sunday School to worship God whilst the parents stayed home and worshiped Venus". Can't remember where I saw this years ago, but it does sum up the situation quite well!
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A better view of the building referred to by Invicta Alec. I think it was a small hall of sorts that was used for social events - I can't remember going inside myself, but my sister went to a party there for the Coronation celebrations in 1953. I'm not sure if there was a different purpose for it originally, but it was already present on maps going back to the 1860's. It's not there anymore, I can't say for sure when it was removed.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kGNdnSwc/Hook-Hatchet2.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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I don't know if this would fit here, but the images I have is inscribed as 'Un-exploded Bomb, Walderslade'. Two other images in the same packet show the men digging in the hole, but this shows housing in the background. Can anyone work out where and if it is Walderslade?
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I'm assuming this dates to the 1950's, so if this is Walderslade those houses in the background may have been fairly new. The main developments would have been Wayfield and Weedswood, but I can't relate the house styles or location to either. I think it might actually be a view in a westerly direction toward Davis Estate from the area of Snodhurst Avenue.
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Two clues here -- houses in foreground, have roofs suggesting, could have a built in garage.
The other -- middle distance -- each house could have an alley.
The half white at the top houses -- I have seen them somewhere ?
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From Google Earth. I think this is the approximate view we are seeing, across Concord and Madden Avenues, but from a slightly lower angle.
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The pic is either late 1940s or early 1950s Smiffy. Is it known if any UXB's landed in that proximity, and can the site be pinpointed today?
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There must be a database somewhere that details the sites of all uxb's as they were (and still are) discovered. I don't know if this freely accessible or not - perhaps someone will know? My guess at the moment is that this one was found in the garden of a property in Snodhurst Avenue.
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ARP/Civil Defence reports should show them Probably TNA have them but may be local at Medway
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I did not hear of any U X Bombs`in the Walderslade area, when I was a Telegram Boy,
from Sept. 1941 to 1942, or when I was an A.R.P. Messenger -- 1941 -- 1945.
Perhaps all this happened before July 1941, when I came back from being an evacuee
in South Wales.
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Looks like this one went unnoticed and wasn't discovered until years later. Could be pipework of some kind was being laid when it was stumbled upon.
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This postcard is around 1920's / 30's
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As far as I know most of these pictures of Walderslade were taken in the 1920's or 1930's. The large houses visible on top of the hill don't appear on OS maps until 1908-09.
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Smiffy..... Obvious the wording for the card is wrong although it mentions Brake in 1899 when he bought the land before converting it all.
Also the type of print on the card matches your ones so they must be as you say.
I have corrected the post
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KeithG, I wonder how much he paid for all of that land in 1899? Even in relative terms it would probably seem a pittance compared to what it's worth now.
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Another view of Brakes Hill from a different angle, which I think was taken a bit later than the one posted by KeithG. This one is titled "Nab Hill" which may refer to one of the large houses on top of the hill which had this name.
(https://i.postimg.cc/MG4KhVpL/NabHill.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
This picture is a bit of an enigma as I'm not entirely sure where it was taken. It says "The Village" and I believe it may be just after the roundabout, going down toward Walderslade village itself. It's hard to relate it to the view now, as there is a modern bypass which veers off to the right, whereas I think this shows the course of the old road which used to bear left into the village. Does anyone know what the sign, or information board on the left is - possibly a bus timetable?
(https://i.postimg.cc/25PrHYHR/Walderslade.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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A view along Princes Avenue. Once called Victoria Road, Princes Avenue did not originally start until near the junction of King Edward road, now renamed Prince Charles Avenue.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kXcM7k5K/Princes-Avenue.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Princes Avenue before development took hold. The original route took it along what is now Kingfisher Drive and Hopewell Drive before
entering Capstone Road near Hopewell House.
(https://i.postimg.cc/C5pMK0DH/Princes-Avenue.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
A bungalow in Victoria road.
(https://i.postimg.cc/5tHfqySS/Victoria-Rd.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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In the second photo and I am going back a good few years ( 1965) I walked down that road from Dargets Wood where we lived with small baby in his pram all the way down to Luton, up Upper Luton Rd to my Mums in Gillingham and then back home again, must have been mad but did it a few times ( was young and lovely then ;) )
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Hi Lyn L. Remember you from the"old"fourum" may not be so young any more,and beauty is in the eye of the beholder😎
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Lyn, I think that most members of the forum over a certain age can remember walking miles to get somewhere without giving it a second thought, until we could afford our own transport. After that it become a less attractive option. (I was once young and lovely as well :D )
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I used to be able to walk for miles ( and run once upon a time ) now it's a trek just to the local shop. the 'famed' beauty sleep didn't help much at all :P but at least I've reached over 70 and lots don't.
I am very careful but have done my own shopping for the last three weeks and found almost everything in my local Co-op . Only when I need to though.
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Smiffy. Many thanks for the photo's. The first card show my parent's bungalow, "Rozzelle", Princes Avenue. Corrugated iron with a veranda all round & a VERY steep garden. They bought it in 1963 when my father retired from the Yard. By then there were many other bungalows/houses along that end of Princes Ave. on the same side- all different in biggish plots & generally built in the 30's. Do you know what date that post card is please? Lyn. I never walked all the way down to Luton but did cycle many times, What a rough old road that was, chalk & flintstones.
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Dave, I think most of these photo's were taken around 1930ish. Some may actually be a bit earlier. I notice that your parents bungalow is no longer there, replaced by a pair of semi's. This is it zoomed in a bit.
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Sorry, i got it wrong, they moved there in the late 50's & the farm across the road was very much smaller than the one on the post card. About the same time that my Dad died there in 1967, the farm had been sold & a small estate of houses built. My Mother moved away a couple of years later & the bungalow sold with the knowledge that it was to be pulled down for modern houses to be built on the site, so a pair of semi's fits the bill. Princes Avenue also was completely made up at that time as well.
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A picture showing "The Homestead". This is the oldest building in Walderslade, parts of which date back to the mid 17th century.
(https://i.postimg.cc/DzYRDjz9/Homestead1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
A modern google earth view from a similar angle, showing a somewhat different prospect.
(https://i.postimg.cc/bvvKmcq0/Homestead2.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Smiffy. Many thanks. That is almost unbelievable!
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Dargets road showing the old school:
(https://i.postimg.cc/br0yD59X/Dargets-Rd.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
A view looking across the village towards Boxley road and beyond:
(https://i.postimg.cc/PJNRz6Fq/Walderslade-Village.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Hi Smiffy,
It's great to see those pictures of Walderslade, thank you! And I do remember seeing them on the 'old' Forum now!
In your picture entitled 'Nab Hill', the house in the very centre of the photo looks like the house on Princess Avenue at the junction with Dargets Road (and is still standing), as it has a very distinctive roof line. It's also in your picture of '"The Valley" Walderslade', in the centre near the top, where Princess Avenue forms a left-hand bend. In your picture of Dargets Road, it's the house in the foreground with just the roof visible. (It's actually two semi-detached houses, but in this context I've referred to it as one.)
I used to live in Dargets Road as a child in the 1970s, and although the area was built up by then, that particular house always seemed to stand out from all the others. When viewing pictures of rural Walderslade, I'll always look for that house and use it as a landmark, as the landscape has changed so dramatically!
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Yes, it's still there, one of the older pre-war properties.
Here's Robin Hood Lane in days of yore:
(https://i.postimg.cc/HkkYnBJK/Robin-Hood-Lane.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Wow! That's simply unrecognisable as the Robin Hood Lane of today! Thank you Smiffy!
We have to thank those who had the foresight to take photos of what were essentially just unremarkable rural areas, but end up as being valuable historic records! Do you know who the photographer was?
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No, unfortunately I have no idea who took most of these pictures, some were probably taken to tempt people into buying a plot in what was then an idyllic piece of the countryside. Others may have just been by amateurs who liked taking rural pictures.
Judging by the vehicle in the Robin Hood lane pic, I'd guess this was the 1920's and we're seeing the terminus of whatever service was available at the time - I doubt if this ran to more than a couple of buses a day.
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All these fascinating pictures prompted me to look on Google Earth and use the 'timeline' tool to scroll back in time to see how quickly the Walderslade area developed. It goes from being heavily wooded and rural to concreted and populated in one fell swoop (or click)!
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Well or cess pit on Walderslade bypass.
Some years ago they put in Walderslade bypass running from part way down Robin Hood Lane towards Walderslade Road, by passing the village itself.
When they were digging to put bypass road in, there was discovered a large red brick structure, beneath the old land surface, shaped a bit like a bell with its wider base down and narrower at top. They had cleaned away the earth to just leave the red bricks in situ. It would easily have fitted a man in to dig and line it.
It was circular and about 4 ft high. It was there for quite a while before they cleared it away to make way for the road.
You can still see where it was, as on the road surface opposite Robin Hood Surgery is a circular area of different type of tarmac, as if the road subsided and was patched up again. I thought it was a village well, but my friend now thinks it was a brick lined cess pit, where the liquid waste would drain away out of the bottom, and the solid waste would be removed either for the garden, or by Chatham Corporation. Does anyone have any photos of information about it please?
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There must be a database somewhere that details the sites of all uxb's as they were (and still are) discovered. I don't know if this freely accessible or not - perhaps someone will know? My guess at the moment is that this one was found in the garden of a property in Snodhurst Avenue.
I wonder if the Royal Engineers Museum at Brompton has a database of UXB's as they were often involved in defusing them? One of their static exhibits shows the process involved in defusing such, with a steam pump that was used to inactivate them.
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That old Walderslade was part of our `playground, us `8 / 11` year olds
The first hill - nearest Luton had the bungalows on it - we visited the 2nd
one on the left at the bottom - a concrete base - then corigated iron walls
up wards. There were no houses on the right hand side - that we could see
(all woods ) - Chestnut Ave was a must in the autumn - Wayfield had not
been built on - Kitchener Ave - was our playground too (nearer home )
The half built houses were too tempting - happy days at Glencoe - too.
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castle261. Was the first hill that you refer to, to become Princes Avenue? All the way down to Luton & not metalled all the way until the 70's.
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Was it Princes Charles Avenue?
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I looked it up - on a map - I believe it was - I have just found out it`s on Princes Avenue - looking
in one of those red Medway maps. Of course there were no recognised reference points - in them
days -1935 - onward. I dont remember much about Walderslade Village, I dont think - we
walked that far, Chestnut Avenue was our limit - I was 8/9 years old then - that was two mile or
more from where I live, all across fields. Strange we all carried sheath knives then - to cut - wood.
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To Dave Smith - That rough road from Luton - was partly made up with a few kerb stones.
Attempts to make it into a proper road - was non exsistant - only a few slabs laid down,
here & there - that was near - that hill
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Strange we all carried sheath knives then - to cut - wood.
Would you believe back in 60's at Rye, we used to take sheath knives to school and played this really dangerous game where two boys stood about 4-5ft apart on the playing field. One would take the knife by the blade and throw it accurately so it landed and stuck in the soft earth just to the outside of the other boy's foot. He then had to move his foot to that position and return the throw to first boy. He likewise moved his foot to the position marked by the blade stuck in the earth. The game continued until one boy surrendered as he could not move his legs any further apart. It was called "Splits" and you could keep challenging different boys to a game to see who was the champion. It was probably more dangerous than conkers, now banned at school, but in all the days we did it, we never had an accident so we must have been pretty good throwers. It was a long time, like several months, before the teachers stopped us doing it!
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Would you believe back in 60's at Rye, we used to take sheath knives to school and played this really dangerous game where two boys stood about 4-5ft apart on the playing field. One would take the knife by the blade and throw it accurately so it landed and stuck in the soft earth just to the outside of the other boy's foot. He then had to move his foot to that position and return the throw to first boy. He likewise moved his foot to the position marked by the blade stuck in the earth. The game continued until one boy surrendered as he could not move his legs any further apart. It was called "Splits" and you could keep challenging different boys to a game to see who was the champion. It was probably more dangerous than conkers, now banned at school, but in all the days we did it, we never had an accident so we must have been pretty good throwers. It was a long time, like several months, before the teachers stopped us doing it!
I'd forgotten all about splits. One thing though, if the knife failed to stick in the ground you it was a foul and you could bring your feet together. It meant that it was a bad idea to throw the knife too far, although the craze petered out when one or two boys developed the knack of making the knife stick several feet away.
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We, as 8 to 11 year olds - only used our sheath knives to cut silver birch trees - to make
our catapults - The quarter inch rubber, was bought from a hardware shop in Magpie Hall Road,
where incidentily, a box on the wall, we could inset a penny, an a cigarette would appear,
with Two swan vesta matches
I used it a couple of times later - before evacuated to Wales at 12 year old.