WW2 events

[Dave Smith]

Well, we've had a pretty good discussion on the V2 I think. All very interesting, thank you all. As it was allocated a BB no., definitely a V2. Nothing conclusive, as one might expect as no one was there, but, if I may be so bold, it would appear that it broke up- possibly from heat generated on re-entry & increasing speed- over farmland without the metric ton of explosive going off- that is a helluva lot of bang!- like our " grand slam" or "tallboy"? I suspect the farmer came across lots of "bits" in later years that hadn't been removed by the Sappers.

[pete.mason]

Fort Clarence TA center had in its "bomb ally'" a V1 test vehicle,actually flown by a women,Hana Riche it was fitted with rudimentary flying controls rudder ,ailerons ECT its cockpit Was extremely small.aparently it was used to iron out early problems of flight prior to going into production as a weapon,I believe it was gifted to a local air museum.

Not at Fort Clarence in 1977, believe it went to the exhibition hall at DEODS Lodge Hill

[castle261]

[MartinR]

[Smiffy]

Launched from the Hague with a burn of just over one minute and total flight time of about 5 minutes, the rocket would be well over the Channel before the engine shut down.

[MartinR]

They were ballistic missiles, and the rocket would only be visible for just over a minute.  From a ship in the channel you would see the exhaust as it started to rise, but after that there was no power.

[stuartwaters]

Unless a nuclear warhead is being used I can't really see the point of a high altitude air burst. In this case I suspect it was the result of structural failure as V2's were then at the very cutting edge of rocket technology, with an impact speed of something like 2,000 mph.

Bye the way, as V2's were generally unseen and unheard until they hit, how was it determined that this was, in fact, a V2?

The Allies were well aware of the V2 before it was deployed operationally. The Special Operations Executive had agents embedded with most of the Resistance cells across Europe, tasked with co-ordinating operations, arranging supplies and weapons drops etc. Intelligence gathered in the field by the various Resistance Groups was passed back to the allies through these agents. On 13th June 1944, a V2 test-firing landed in Sweden and a deal was done secretly which resulted in the missile being sent to the UK. Before that, on 30th May, another rocket was successfully recovered by the Polish Resistance and was transported back to the UK in Operation Most III. Both these operations occurred months before the Nazis began to fire the rockets at London.

[Colin walsh]

Fort Clarence TA center had in its "bomb ally'" a V1 test vehicle,actually flown by a women,Hana Riche it was fitted with rudimentary flying controls rudder ,ailerons ECT its cockpit Was extremely small.aparently it was used to iron out early problems of flight prior to going into production as a weapon,I believe it was gifted to a local air museum.

[Smiffy]

I suspect some kind of radar altimeter would be the only way of guaranteeing a detonation at the right altitude at that speed. As far as I can determine, all V2 air bursts were the result of structural failure.

As for V2's not being seen until they hit the ground, perhaps that is not entirely true as I remember my father telling me how they they were, in fact visible on a clear night from a ship in the channel, being betrayed by their rocket exhaust. Way too high and fast to be shot down of course, and by the time - and if - they were seen on a radar screen, it was already too late.

I believe that V2's were actually less destructive than V1's as they buried themselves so deep that the explosion was mainly directed upward. With V1's the speed of impact was less and so the blast was directed more horizonally, potentially causing more widespread damage in built-up areas.

[MartinR]

High altitude - no, but an air burst is any explosion before the munition hits the ground (in the case of a nuclear explosion the requirement is that the fireball does not touch the ground).  Air bursts have a long history, consider the American anthem "The rockets' red glare//The bombs bursting in air".  However, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-2_rocket in this case it probably was structural failure.
V2s could be diagnosed by the debris they left.
@Grandarog: would a barometric fuse work with the shock of re-entry and the massive increase in air pressure due to the speed?

[Smiffy]

Unless a nuclear warhead is being used I can't really see the point of a high altitude air burst. In this case I suspect it was the result of structural failure as V2's were then at the very cutting edge of rocket technology, with an impact speed of something like 2,000 mph.

Bye the way, as V2's were generally unseen and unheard until they hit, how was it determined that this was, in fact, a V2?

[grandarog]

I should imagine the V2 Airburst would be achieved with a Barometric fuse set to trigger at a predetermined altitude. Say 300 feet above sea level for example.


V1,s were fitted with impact fuses or time delay which detonated the primer and Charge when it hit the ground or predetermined time after impact.. They only airburst when Shot at by pursuing aircraft. The practice was discouraged, due tom shrapnel damage to the aircraft .Instead the method  of displacing the gyros by flying with the wing tip just below the V1's to unbalance it with slipstream causing it to spiral down to earth .
 Contrary to popular belief and propaganda "Wingtipping " did not involve contact with the VI by the aircraft.

[MartinR]

Yes, but the air burst originally mentioned was from a V2.

[Smiffy]

I always thought that V1's had a pre-determined time of flight programmed in dependent on the estimated time it would take to reach a given target. They had a small windmill on the nose which was set to turn for a certain number of times after which the engine cut out and the bomb descended to explode on impact. I would imagine that an air burst would be the result of a hit from ground fire or from aerial interception.

[MartinR]

Cosmo, that's a very good point.  Did the Germans have radar fuses?