The Kent History Forum
Life Stories and Personal Memories => Personal Memories => Topic started by: Dave Smith on July 24, 2020, 02:02:40 PM
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In the absence of a dedicated subject a la KHF1, I've just been reading about V1's & V2's in October 1944. It is recorded that at 08.15 on the morning of 4th Oct., 1944, a V2 (Big Ben no.44) airburst over Eastchurch, Sheppy. Does anyone have recollection of the event ( very few of us around then!) or details of what happened please?
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This was mentioned on the old forum but I don't think anyone could add any further information apart from the fact that the source came from a hand-written note. I'm sure there must be a more official report somewhere.
Map of V1 hits on Kent:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/22124479@N03/4987338972/in/photostream/
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Dave smith,I have no information on your particular incident,but about that time the Germans started to fit the warhead on some V1s with 17B type fuzes,this was a delay fuze that could be set at random time periods ,if this was a anti disposal mesure,or dilibratly done to cause air blast damage I can't remember, ex BD Royal Engineers .
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That Air burst was over Rydes Farm. there was another V2 strike on the Island also an Airburst..
incident 94 at Queenborough at 02.07 Tuesday 24 October 1944 .
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No recognition of that event - I said on the old site - we recorded the very first V1 - it crossed
Chatham - landed at Greenhithe - We recorded it as an aircraft with it`s engine on fire - flying
very low. I personally - have watched two `V1 crash, the one in Frinsbury, I watched it
cut out & dive. The second - nearly killed me - near Tonbridge - crashed 200 yards away.
I also saw 7 V1`s - in the sky at once - also near Tonbridge - all heading - towards London.
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As Castle261 has mentioned V1's .There were 3 V1 strikes on the Island .Another 3 or 4 around Sittingbourne area on the mainland.
In the big picture our area got off quite light. We suffered far more with bombing earlier during the War
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Is it not true that when V2s landed in built up areas, they were reported as 'gas explosions' because the Government didn't want people to know that the nazis had a weapon against which there was no defence?
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They were, the V2 was silent in the air, even when it landed - people heard the explosion -
then, a swush - ( like it was coming down ) - followed seconds later - ( sound barrier ? )
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That's basically it. The V2s came down faster than the speed of sound, and so the V2 arrived first, with the sound of it coming later (assuming you survived or weren't deafened by the explosion). FWIW the "barrier" really only applies to flight, it is a dramatic increase in drag and other effects which took a while to understand and overcome.
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Got me wondering whether the airburst was an intended effect or an accidental outcome of the warhead fuse? To be deliberate would require split second timing and as I understand it, the Germans were not able to accurately target them. This makes a timing mechanism unlikely?
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Cosmo, that's a very good point. Did the Germans have radar fuses?
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I always thought that V1's had a pre-determined time of flight programmed in dependent on the estimated time it would take to reach a given target. They had a small windmill on the nose which was set to turn for a certain number of times after which the engine cut out and the bomb descended to explode on impact. I would imagine that an air burst would be the result of a hit from ground fire or from aerial interception.
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Yes, but the air burst originally mentioned was from a V2.
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I should imagine the V2 Airburst would be achieved with a Barometric fuse set to trigger at a predetermined altitude. Say 300 feet above sea level for example.
V1,s were fitted with impact fuses or time delay which detonated the primer and Charge when it hit the ground or predetermined time after impact.. They only airburst when Shot at by pursuing aircraft. The practice was discouraged, due tom shrapnel damage to the aircraft .Instead the method of displacing the gyros by flying with the wing tip just below the V1's to unbalance it with slipstream causing it to spiral down to earth .
Contrary to popular belief and propaganda "Wingtipping " did not involve contact with the VI by the aircraft.
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Unless a nuclear warhead is being used I can't really see the point of a high altitude air burst. In this case I suspect it was the result of structural failure as V2's were then at the very cutting edge of rocket technology, with an impact speed of something like 2,000 mph.
Bye the way, as V2's were generally unseen and unheard until they hit, how was it determined that this was, in fact, a V2?
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High altitude - no, but an air burst is any explosion before the munition hits the ground (in the case of a nuclear explosion the requirement is that the fireball does not touch the ground). Air bursts have a long history, consider the American anthem "The rockets' red glare//The bombs bursting in air". However, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-2_rocket (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-2_rocket) in this case it probably was structural failure.
V2s could be diagnosed by the debris they left.
@Grandarog: would a barometric fuse work with the shock of re-entry and the massive increase in air pressure due to the speed?
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I suspect some kind of radar altimeter would be the only way of guaranteeing a detonation at the right altitude at that speed. As far as I can determine, all V2 air bursts were the result of structural failure.
As for V2's not being seen until they hit the ground, perhaps that is not entirely true as I remember my father telling me how they they were, in fact visible on a clear night from a ship in the channel, being betrayed by their rocket exhaust. Way too high and fast to be shot down of course, and by the time - and if - they were seen on a radar screen, it was already too late.
I believe that V2's were actually less destructive than V1's as they buried themselves so deep that the explosion was mainly directed upward. With V1's the speed of impact was less and so the blast was directed more horizonally, potentially causing more widespread damage in built-up areas.
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Fort Clarence TA center had in its "bomb ally'" a V1 test vehicle,actually flown by a women,Hana Riche it was fitted with rudimentary flying controls rudder ,ailerons ECT its cockpit Was extremely small.aparently it was used to iron out early problems of flight prior to going into production as a weapon,I believe it was gifted to a local air museum.
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Unless a nuclear warhead is being used I can't really see the point of a high altitude air burst. In this case I suspect it was the result of structural failure as V2's were then at the very cutting edge of rocket technology, with an impact speed of something like 2,000 mph.
Bye the way, as V2's were generally unseen and unheard until they hit, how was it determined that this was, in fact, a V2?
The Allies were well aware of the V2 before it was deployed operationally. The Special Operations Executive had agents embedded with most of the Resistance cells across Europe, tasked with co-ordinating operations, arranging supplies and weapons drops etc. Intelligence gathered in the field by the various Resistance Groups was passed back to the allies through these agents. On 13th June 1944, a V2 test-firing landed in Sweden and a deal was done secretly which resulted in the missile being sent to the UK. Before that, on 30th May, another rocket was successfully recovered by the Polish Resistance and was transported back to the UK in Operation Most III. Both these operations occurred months before the Nazis began to fire the rockets at London.
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They were ballistic missiles, and the rocket would only be visible for just over a minute. From a ship in the channel you would see the exhaust as it started to rise, but after that there was no power.
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Launched from the Hague with a burn of just over one minute and total flight time of about 5 minutes, the rocket would be well over the Channel before the engine shut down.
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Fort Clarence TA center had in its "bomb ally'" a V1 test vehicle,actually flown by a women,Hana Riche it was fitted with rudimentary flying controls rudder ,ailerons ECT its cockpit Was extremely small.aparently it was used to iron out early problems of flight prior to going into production as a weapon,I believe it was gifted to a local air museum.
Not at Fort Clarence in 1977, believe it went to the exhibition hall at DEODS Lodge Hill
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Well, we've had a pretty good discussion on the V2 I think. All very interesting, thank you all. As it was allocated a BB no., definitely a V2. Nothing conclusive, as one might expect as no one was there, but, if I may be so bold, it would appear that it broke up- possibly from heat generated on re-entry & increasing speed- over farmland without the metric ton of explosive going off- that is a helluva lot of bang!- like our " grand slam" or "tallboy"? I suspect the farmer came across lots of "bits" in later years that hadn't been removed by the Sappers.
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My Mum was standing by the back window of our house and looking out as a V2 fell about 1/2 mile away. She felt a shockwave and the window bowed inwards before they heard the bang. My sister remembered the door key flying across the room. The ceilings of several house collapsed later. I don't remember it as Mum was only just pregnant with me then!
mmitch.
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If it was a true shock, either from the supersonic flight or from the explosion, it would indeed travel much faster than the sound of the explosion. That's part of the distinction between a shock and normal waves.
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mmitch. That's interesting. Where did you live then & do you know where the V2 actually fell? I remember that in 1944 a V2 or maybe a V1 landed on a housing estate at Finsbury/Strood.
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I still live in the house in Gravesend. The V2 landed in Portland avenue near to Echo square. Several deaths and injuries and the damage reached the Echo. Our kitchen ceiling came down later just missing Mum and we are about 1/2 mile away.
mmitch.
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There were 2 V2 Strikes in Gravesend Both Direct hits.
mmitch's was Incident 181 at 16.39 Mon 13 November 1944, Portland Avenue.
the other was incident 281 at 23.45 Wed 29 November 1944"near the RN Sea School.
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Good site here listing all known V2 hits and information relating to them:
https://www.wrsonline.co.uk/ (https://www.wrsonline.co.uk/)
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As a result of the 181 strike on Portland Avenue.I have found 4 Civilans Killed on the day. SMDash and P Keer at 81 EG Finney at 83 and DE Sprigwell at 80.
EM Fergusson of 84 died later at Northkent Hospital gravesend .
There may have been more deaths on later dates from injury sustained.
from a couple of books, one states 5 Killed and 16 injured and another states 5 lives lost and 84 injured.
Good article about the incident on this Link:= https://www.kentonline.co.uk/gravesend/news/my-parents-were-lucky-to-survive-216145/ (https://www.kentonline.co.uk/gravesend/news/my-parents-were-lucky-to-survive-216145/)
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I remember my sister saying a girl she went to the nearby Whitehill school with was leaning on her front gate and just vanished..... But that was normal life in those days. A workmate had lost his mother in a raid because she hide behind the wrong side of a wall but her husband was on the other side and lived.
mmitch.
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Bye the way, as V2's were generally unseen and unheard until they hit, how was it determined that this was, in fact, a V2?
I remember seeing some parts of a landed V1 or V2 on display in a museum recently. Some were football-like spheres made out of tape wrapping of some kind. I recall wondering how such parts could possibly have survived an impact, let alone the explosion?
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Th other V2 demolished Fort house, General Gordon's former house (now Fort gardens) The tail pipe assembly was on display there for many years. Also I remember there was a sea mine next to it converted into a collecting box!
mmitch.
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Cosmo. The sphere on V1,s was a pressure vessel used to pressurise the fuel prior to it entering the jets that sprayed a fine mist- to better mix with the oxygen in the air. A spark plug ignited this mixture about 40 times per second to give the name " pulse jet" & give the never to be forgotten ( by me anyway- I can hear it now!) brrrrrrrr.
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Strange that no one has commented on the site being in maintenance mode for the past few days! Anyway, it's working for me now, thanks-again- Stuart. VJ Day. On the old forum I posted that I remembered it well for, as an apprentice at Shorts seaplane works, we heard that there was to be a big bonfire in the evening to celebrate the final finish to the conflict between the Allies & the Axis. About 7 in the evening we arrived to find that it had been built on waste ground further along the esplanade, just past no.18 shop hardstanding. They'd used pallets & other wood initially & finished with a " wigwam", wrapped around by bitumus brown paper. Prior to the fire being lit, someone poured- petrol I suspect- on the central wood & then it was lit. It wasn't long before there was a mighty woosh up into the air, which unfortunately also blew sideways & 2 girls at the front were burned. Next we heard was an ambulance arriving at 18 shop & the girls transferred on stretchers. I'm glad to say that I heard later that it wasn't as bad as it might have been.
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So that's what has been wrong! I've been unable to view posts properly for about a week now. Thank's for sorting it out, even if I had to log in again.
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Hi still can't log in with social network,had to re join,still ok now,for a while there it looked like aKyn job😊