The Kent History Forum
Members Only Area => General Discussion => Topic started by: bertroid on June 17, 2020, 07:37:09 PM
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Evening all.
After some thought, I'm hanging my hat up on this group, which to me has become a glorified 'Guess the Place' forum. A recent comment by the usual 'attack dog', who was deleted from the last forum for the same reason, has taken the wind out of my sails.
I was described by him (in a very garbled forum post) as an obnoxious plagiarising parasite (which if he'd actually bought my book, he'd know is very far from the truth) So in essence, time to do the off, and put up research where it is more appreciated, or just publish it as intended. Not going through this baiting/trolling thing from a flag-waving Neanderthal who's concept of history probably involves talking about the good old days in the British Legion. The effort of visiting places, interviewing people, going through thousands of old documents/maps etc isn't appreciated by some, it would appear. No apology was forthcoming, and no doubt ever even considered.
I will delete my posts as soon as I've worked out how to. Thanks to various people in here, who have been helpful. Sadly not enough though.
Best of luck to Stuart in particular, for having to deal with this rowdy crowd, and I hope sincerely that more decent people join the place. Particularly historians, despite how unwelcome they are made to feel at times.
Best of luck all.
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Bertroid:
Perhaps better to think again and stay? This forum isn't just about Guess the Place. Between us we have a great deal of local knowledge, which we can use for good.
Sorry you appear to have been forum-abused, which isn't acceptable. Don't let people bully you into leaving. A few people on here seem to have their own agenda's but that will happen anywhere!
Please think again.
Mike
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Bertroid:
Perhaps better to think again and stay? This forum isn't just about Guess the Place. Between us we have a great deal of local knowledge, which we can use for good.
Sorry you appear to have been forum-abused, which isn't acceptable. Don't let people bully you into leaving. A few people on here seem to have their own agenda's but that will happen anywhere!
Please think again.
Mike
Thanks for the thoughts Mike. I went through the same six years ago in the old forum, when I announced the publication date of my book. Same individual gave the book a savage review before it had been even been printed, and got booted for it. I don't plan to go through that again. This group should be more than Guess the Place, but it isn't really. At least yet.
Anyway, I'll carry on deleting.
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Bertroid:
Perhaps better to think again and stay? This forum isn't just about Guess the Place. Between us we have a great deal of local knowledge, which we can use for good.
Sorry you appear to have been forum-abused, which isn't acceptable. Don't let people bully you into leaving. A few people on here seem to have their own agenda's but that will happen anywhere!
Please think again.
Mike
Thanks for the thoughts Mike. I went through the same six years ago, when I announced the publication date of my book. Same individual gave the book a savage review before it had been even been printed, and got booted for it. I don't plan to go through that again. This group should be more than Guess the Place, but it isn't really. At least yet.
Anyway, I'll carry on deleting.
Sorry to see you go.
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This is a great pity. I see it on other forums, mainly steam related. Mills have been a part history and our recording of it for most of modern history. KHF will be poorer for not having your input.
Dave
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This is a great pity. I see it on other forums, mainly steam related. Mills have been a part history and our recording of it for most of modern history. KHF will be poorer for not having your input.
Dave
Well said DaveThe Train. The sad thing is, he is leaving with his knowledge because of a bully-boy on this forum. I thought this place was the Kent History Forum.
Mike
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Thanks Dave...
Just to add this particularly unpleasant chap started doing this on the old forum about seven years ago, and I'd rather not let his pathetic trolling get in the way of my research.
I will let the forum know somehow when I've finished the next volume.
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Thanks Dave...
Just to add this particularly unpleasant chap started doing this on the old forum about seven years ago, and I'd rather not let his pathetic trolling get in the way of my research.
I will let the forum know somehow when I've finished the next volume.
I for one would like to see your research when complete. I wish you well and sorry to see you go. Please don't delete your material on windmills. They are an important source of detail, for others.
I say again, no one - that is, no-one should feel they have to leave a forum because of the bully actions of another. Those days have gone and perhaps we ought to have measures that cover this sort of forum bullying in the forum. A kind of member safety net. A sad mindless bully will always pick on someone. From the comfort of their computer screen, as they think they have Immunity. If this forum is to continue there have to be changes and bully's named openly after warnings given. If we want to be a serious forum, this has to happen. I appeal to Stuart to make these changes to protect forum members but more, the new members that join in. They mustn't be bullied and frightened away. I now know the name of the bully in this example, he has done exactly the same in other forums. He will not continue his destructive comments in this forum. Or perhaps I should walk away as well and leave the 'bigman' to his quest. I am just a member here, but this is my opinion. That must count for something, if it doesn't I will leave. The Kent History Forum - Bully's not welcome.
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Hi Bertroid, I think it is a great shame that you are considering withdrawing from the Forum, I did not even know such behaviour as you describe occurs here. Having attended a talk on Kent windmills at the 'Chatham Historical Society last year I found the whole subject of these old structures quite fascinating.
The forum will be a poorer place without contributors such as your self and I for one will be sorry to see you go.
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Words nearly fail me on this. Why would anyone want to bully someone who researches things and tells others of his findings? Are they intent on changing history as is going on in other areas so much lately?
To say I'm disappointed that this has happened doesn't really express how depressing I find it although I may never visit the towns of my birth ever again. All the best to you Bertroid, I don't know you but really feel your pain.
AlanTH.
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Words nearly fail me on this. Why would anyone want to bully someone who researches things and tells others of his findings? Are they intent on changing history as is going on in other areas so much lately?
To say I'm disappointed that this has happened doesn't really express how depressing I find it although I may never visit the towns of my birth ever again. All the best to you Bertroid, I don't know you but really feel your pain.
AlanTH.
Fine words AlanTH and I agree. I have asked if possible that bertroid leaves his Mill postings on this forum. I think they are well researched and a valuable resource to have. As he is the copyright holder and the owner of the posts, it is up to him of course. It would sad to lose bertroid and his posts however.
I wondered what the forum top-poster, KeithG thinks about this?
Mike
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Words nearly fail me on this. Why would anyone want to bully someone who researches things and tells others of his findings? Are they intent on changing history as is going on in other areas so much lately?
To say I'm disappointed that this has happened doesn't really express how depressing I find it although I may never visit the towns of my birth ever again. All the best to you Bertroid, I don't know you but really feel your pain.
AlanTH.
Fine words AlanTH and I agree. I have asked if possible that bertroid leaves his Mill postings on this forum. I think they are well researched and a valuable resource to have. As he is the copyright holder and the owner of the posts, it is up to him of course. It would sad to lose bertroid and his posts however.
I wondered what the forum top-poster, KeithG thinks about this?
Mike
Mike and Alan, I appreciate your efforts. I've deleted about half of them, and most of the ones that I can't delete have been modified with the words
'Deleted, so it can't be plagiarised (ironically)'
The 'Top poster' had a good read last night, and unusually didn't feel the need to comment!
I'll do the rest when I've got back from work, and popped into a Kentish windmill currently under repair today, just to offer the contractors advice.
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Bertroid leaving must not happen.
Without Bertroid's wonderful input, us members would be ignorant about Windmills and there history.
Stuart please, exert your authority and Banish the offending Troll from our Forum.
I like others didn't realise such behavior happened on here or the old forum. We expect it on the gossip groups that abound and are plagued by knuckle draggers but not on here.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion. That does not entitle them to slag off others work or belittle their efforts .
Without some of Bertroid's input I could not have built 2 Garden Windmills over recent years .
This forum is still young and will gradually build up with more subject matter .
Guess the place is just something to keep folks alert and aware of the County's history.
The Forum is far more than just that .
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Bertroid leaving must not happen.
Without Bertroid's wonderful input, us members would be ignorant about Windmills and there history.
Stuart please, exert your authority and Banish the offending Troll from our Forum.
I like others didn't realise such behavior happened on here or the old forum. We expect it on the gossip groups that abound and are plagued by knuckle draggers but not on here.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion. That does not entitle them to slag off others work or belittle their efforts .
Without some of Bertroid's input I could not have built 2 Garden Windmills over recent years .
This forum is still young and will gradually build up with more subject matter .
Guess the place is just something to keep folks alert and aware of the County's history.
The Forum is far more than just that .
Do you have a photograph of your windmill, grandarog? I would like to see it, if so?
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Mike,having no idea as to the type or method of bullying you have been subjected to,I would like to have Stuart's opinion on the situation,if permissible,one thing I don't want to see on this fourum is the type of thing that happened on the"other"fourum ,as a long time member of the old"fourum"I have a great respect for our Stuart ,I feel strongly the right thing to do will be to leave it to him he will sort it out,one way or another,he has a great big knife as well.
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Probably best to scroll back and read all the comments Colin, I would suggest.
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Mike,having no idea as to the type or method of bullying you have been subjected to,I would like to have Stuart's opinion on the situation,if permissible,one thing I don't want to see on this fourum is the type of thing that happened on the"other"fourum ,as a long time member of the old"fourum"I have a great respect for our Stuart ,I feel strongly the right thing to do will be to leave it to him he will sort it out,one way or another,he has a great big knife as well.
Colin:I have not been the subject of any bullying! Another member of the forum has.
I agree with your comments and would welcome Stuart's opinion.
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I am in the middle of updating my computer so with my sausage fingers are trying to use my mobile to type.
I find it amazing how you all slag me off for just one post!
I am not a troll and cannot be bothered as I have been ridiculed most of my life so I know first hand what it feels like.... All of you do not know the whole story so you should not really comment about things you know nothing about.
I never called bertroid directly anything I did not even name him I simply said what he seems to be.
On the old forum he, then kms, really slated me off and the book I was recommending as a good read he said was absolute rubbish the author Williams Cole Finch never got anything correct with his research but he was a very well known and famous man who was actually there seeing and photographing windmills not like our forum friend sagging him off and altering history and then have the ordacity to write a book about it.
If one reads carefully most of his threads he will slate off Coles books somewhere.
kms also exaggerates things or rather tells lies to further his end or opinion and he waits secretly to pounce on my posts where I try to defend myself
Further more he conived with Kyn to make her really have a o at me and made sure he was safe on the forum the same as he is doing here.... Kyn stopped me from using Guess the Place and I couldn't even view it..... I thought she was being too harsh on me that had not started it all so I handed in my notice and then as a true Kyn she stopped me even viewing the forum... But I downloaded a VPN so the forum could not detect me and I could watch kms antics as he thought I was gone for good.
All these posts on here now are just simply Poor Me posts as he wants attention as he has said himself not many post on his threads..... thing is it is very difficult to post what he writes about as he will come back and more or less say I know better?... also why should he want to remove his posts when he has spent so long researching the once again Poor Me.
I am not on this forum to have a go at members so I don't know you all have the blame attitude to me and also call me names?
Still even at 72yrs I still learn who are friendly and who are not?
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I am in the middle of updating my computer so with my sausage fingers are trying to use my mobile to type.
I find it amazing how you all slag me off for just one post!
I am not a troll and cannot be bothered as I have been ridiculed most of my life so I know first hand what it feels like.... All of you do not know the whole story so you should not really comment about things you know nothing about.
I never called bertroid directly anything I did not even name him I simply said what he seems to be.
On the old forum he, then kms, really slated me off and the book I was recommending as a good read he said was absolute rubbish the author Williams Cole Finch never got anything correct with his research but he was a very well known and famous man who was actually there seeing and photographing windmills not like our forum friend sagging him off and altering history and then have the ordacity to write a book about it.
If one reads carefully most of his threads he will slate off Coles books somewhere.
kms also exaggerates things or rather tells lies to further his end or opinion and he waits secretly to pounce on my posts where I try to defend myself
Further more he conived with Kyn to make her really have a o at me and made sure he was safe on the forum the same as he is doing here.... Kyn stopped me from using Guess the Place and I couldn't even view it..... I thought she was being too harsh on me that had not started it all so I handed in my notice and then as a true Kyn she stopped me even viewing the forum... But I downloaded a VPN so the forum could not detect me and I could watch kms antics as he thought I was gone for good.
All these posts on here now are just simply Poor Me posts as he wants attention as he has said himself not many post on his threads..... thing is it is very difficult to post what he writes about as he will come back and more or less say I know better?... also why should he want to remove his posts when he has spent so long researching the once again Poor Me.
I am not on this forum to have a go at members so I don't know you all have the blame attitude to me and also call me names?
Still even at 72yrs I still learn who are friendly and who are not?
You appear to have outed-yourself. You were not mentioned by name. Bertroid feels he was "trolled" etc., and because of this is leaving this forum. He feels let down because he was given assurances when he first joined this forum. What is very clear that a majority of members do not like when a new member gets the bully-boy treatment. Personally I find this shameful and should not happen.
The important thing; is to leave this, for Stuart to sort out. It's his forum. I will not post on this matter until Stuart makes some sort of decision and comment.
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And sort it out I will. I'm at work right now, but will have a look at it this evening when I get home. I must say that I'm really, really disappointed by this.
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Thank you Stuart, don't envy your mediation duty.
In answer to Mike Gunnill's request .
The Windmills ..
No 1. was in our back Garden at Sittingbourne .
No 2 .is currently here in front garden . The Tank was built for this years VE 75 Celebrations.
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O dear😱Got it all wrong again,my apologies to any one I may have offended ,made a complete fool of myself,consider myself suitably chastised,promise not to get involved again,I never seem to learn do I.
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O dear😱Got it all wrong again,my apologies to any one I may have offended ,made a complete fool of myself,consider myself suitably chastised,promise not to get involved again,I never seem to learn do I.
Colin: don't worry and don't be too hard on yourself.
Stay safe
Mike
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Thank you Stuart, don't envy your mediation duty.
In answer to Mike Gunnill's request .
The Windmills ..
No 1. was in our back Garden at Sittingbourne .
No 2 .is currently here in front garden . The Tank was built for this years VE 75 Celebrations.
The mill looks good grandarog, well done. Self taught from the forum! Do you have to turn the mill into the wind, by hand?
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Thank you Stuart, don't envy your mediation duty.
In answer to Mike Gunnill's request .
The Windmills ..
No 1. was in our back Garden at Sittingbourne .
No 2 .is currently here in front garden . The Tank was built for this years VE 75 Celebrations.
Rog,
Have you seen the lighthouse in Upchruch, along Wallbridge Lane? It always made me smile for ingenuity in hiding an ugly telegraph pole.
Dave
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I never called bertroid directly anything I did not even name him I simply said what he seems to be.
On the old forum he, then kms, really slated me off and the book I was recommending as a good read he said was absolute rubbish the author Williams Cole Finch never got anything correct with his research but he was a very well known and famous man who was actually there seeing and photographing windmills not like our forum friend sagging him off and altering history and then have the ordacity to write a book about it.
If one reads carefully most of his threads he will slate off Coles books somewhere.
kms also exaggerates things or rather tells lies to further his end or opinion and he waits secretly to pounce on my posts where I try to defend myself
Further more he conived with Kyn to make her really have a o at me and made sure he was safe on the forum the same as he is doing here.... Kyn stopped me from using Guess the Place and I couldn't even view it..... I thought she was being too harsh on me that had not started it all so I handed in my notice and then as a true Kyn she stopped me even viewing the forum... But I downloaded a VPN so the forum could not detect me and I could watch kms antics as he thought I was gone for good.
All these posts on here now are just simply Poor Me posts as he wants attention as he has said himself not many post on his threads..... thing is it is very difficult to post what he writes about as he will come back and more or less say I know better?... also why should he want to remove his posts when he has spent so long researching the once again Poor Me.
I think this pretty much backs up why I have to go. Lies as usual. You quoted me five days ago and then described me as an 'obnoxious plagiarising parasite', and then started something about people in here have been questioning my laughable career (!??) which I haven't even discussed. So if that isn't direct, I don't know what is. I thanked Stuart for removing your post, after reporting it, and then you thanked him as well!
Seven years ago, in the old forum, I simply mentioned the release date for my book, mentioning that it was putting right many of the inaccuracies in Coles-Finch's book written 87 years ago. You kindly reviewed it as 'rubbish', before it had even been printed. Then you decided on the same night to review Coles-Finch's book. Kyn messaged me a couple of days later, after a couple of members had flagged the post, and she ended up ringing me. She stated that she'd had so many complaints about you, that this was the final blow for your presence in the old forum. No conniving, just ditching the nasty troll.
As for my posts, strangely research isn't done overnight, and they remain on my hard drive until ready for my very patient publisher. The idea of putting them on here and the old forum, was to get help in areas with 'extra eyes'. I have between 500 and 600 sites to deal with, so it's not an easy task. In the last forum Smiffy was particularly helpful, and we went about demolishing Coles-Finch's poor research in his home towns of Chatham and Rochester. Fortunately when it was actually published, there weren't any reviews in the style of Keith's. A twenty lecture tour followed with rave reviews. Unfortunately all the excessive use of my brain led to a brain haemorrhage on Xmas Eve that year, but I'm now fully recovered and doing the other volumes.
I don't know whether you just sit there with 'Guess the Place' permanently on, with a large bottle of meths nearby.
And don't worry, I wasn't expecting an apology. You aren't the type.
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kms also exaggerates things or rather tells lies to further his end or opinion and he waits secretly to pounce on my posts where I try to defend myself
Clueless what this is about. No surprise there.
And grandarog, love the models... they have that Wealden Kent/Sussex feel on the western side of the county.
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FFS stop the mud slinging both of you and the "he said" "you said". Carry on in privacy if you wish or leave the forum. Rant over
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FFS stop the mud slinging both of you and the "he said" "you said". Carry on in privacy if you wish or leave the forum. Rant over
I am Pete. So mind your own business, thanks.
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If you all go back and read bertroid first post you will see clearly that he is not happy about the forum as a whole a nd near the end says "rowdy crowd "... So I am just being used as a scapegoat as I never called him what he states. Of course then you all simply jump on me which is really what he wants... He just simply needs an excuse for deleting his posts which really he should not do.
He has probably realised that he needs all the info for his books and will sell less if all on here.
It is a shame all this as I have never ever been rude to others on here despite my builder upbringing and having a type of asperges.
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I've now had a chance to look at this and first of all, I must offer my apologies to the membership as a whole. I can make all the excuses in the world about long hours at work, early starts, late finishes, being dog tired when I get home etc, but none of that really matters and to be honest I'm not in the mood for a pity party. At the end of the day, I'm the administrator of this forum and it falls on me to make sure that what has been happening recently between two members doesn't happen. I dropped the ball and that's on me and me alone. I'm really disappointed that it did happen because I never intended for this forum to be micromanaged in the way that the old one was and hoped, perhaps naively, that it would police itself. I saw that things were beginning to heat up on that thread and decided to let it play out, hoping that one or the other would be the bigger man and leave it. I now realise that, with hindsight, that was a mistake on my part and I regret not taking firm action to put a stop to it there and then.
I said in a previous post that people should be free to state an opinion and that people should be equally free to disagree. Debate the point all you like, but please, do not allow a debate to descend into name-calling and insults. If people can't agree, then I expect people to agree to disagree and move on. Name-calling, insults and provocation will not be tolerated and will be treated harshly. I don't care who they are, what they might have achieved in the past and how much they have contributed to this or any other forum, if people can't behave like grown-ups, I don't want them on the forum. End of.
To that end, I've banned both the members concerned and I expect that to be the end of the matter. In future, if members take offence at a post or a statement made in a post, report it and do not rise to the bait.
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A good and appropriate decision.
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Time to move on and forget this, but to learn from it.
Mike
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A fair decision - an administrator has to make --------------- sometimes - two good researcher`s lost.
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Stuart. Sad but I'm sure you've made the right decision & I'm also sure that all the members are behind you. I certainly appreciate all the effort you've put into starting & running this new forum, particularly as you are still working, so don't berate yourself. Thanks, DaveSmith.
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Fully Agree
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Am I alone in thinking that the removal of all your posts because someone has upset you is rather childish?
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Am I alone in thinking that the removal of all your posts because someone has upset you is rather childish?
I think the point bertroid made was, that his posts were researched over a number of years for a forth coming publication. He then decided after the way he was treated he wanted to remove this knowledge from the public domain.
I suppose if he posted something, he can remove it, I am not sure but I don't think " childish " came into it. On this point I am not sure who is right or wrong.
regards
Mike
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One is not enough, it is one too many. If individuals have a problem with each other then sort it in private. Not only is putting it on a public board boring and distasteful fot the members they are also exposing themselves to a libel case .My personal feeling is that it's time this topic was locked
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And I agree Pete. I would like to thank members for their support, I really do appreciate it. As for the bans themselves, the actual profiles are unaffected, the ban simply means that the users cannot log into their profile. The ban applies to the username, the email address and the IP address. The ban can be lifted whenever the members concerned want me to, that will of course be subject to certain assurances and guarantees. I'm going to lock this thread now and move it to where it belongs.
Thank you all again for your support, I really do appreciate it.